Nov 202012

So the prominent news I have seen today regards the Church of England narrowly voting against women bishops.

Though I might point out that they don’t even have male bishops since they lost apostolic succession. The exception would be if perhaps one of their “bishops” was actually ordained  by for example an Eastern Orthodox bishop. See Apostolicae Curae.

Still CoE watching is always rather interesting considering all the factions and the attempt to please everybody by pleasing nobody.  Fr. Longenecker has a good short rundown on the competing divisions.

I also find the whole theology by vote interesting.  If only we had that before and certainly the Arians would have been pretty happy about that.  Not exactly the best of systems, though Barrabas might disagree.

I also wonder about the whole idea of having women priests but not women bishops?  A holy order glass ceiling. Once you allow for the other will eventually happen.  At least that is true when you realize that this is really seen through a political lens and not a theological one.  In some ways I think this should offend feminists much more than the Catholic teaching.  It is one thing to say that only men can be priests and another to say women can participate in two levels of holy orders, but no further.

Although I feel pretty much the same with the idea advanced by some Catholics that women can be ordained as deacons.  This is similar to me to the Anglican compromise regarding the three levels of holy orders.  Supporters of this will say that this is an “Open theological question” which I guess means that it hasn’t been totally ruled out by the magisterium.  The constant practice of the Church and the fact that early councils such as Nicea I said that deaconesses were not ordained would lead me to be quite skeptical that this would happen.  Still the great thing about being Catholic is that I don’t determine the theology.  I take my cue from the magisterium and then try to learn what the Church teaches.

  6 Responses to “Holy Order Glass Ceiling”

  1. An Anglican bishop would probably not be a bishop in the Catholic sense even if he had been ordained by (say) an Eastern Orthodox bishop. After all, when the Anglicans first lost valid orders, all the Anglican bishops *did* have valid ordinations (they were all former Catholics, after all). The problem (as I understand it) was (and is) that the Anglican understanding of what being a bishop *means* is different from, and not compatible with, the same as the Catholic (or Orthodox) understanding. So it’s pretty hard to argue that the ordination was done with the intent of doing what the Church does in ordination. Without that intent, the ordination isn’t valid no matter who does it.

    Corrections welcome.


  2. They will eventually have women “bishops.”

    Walter Hooper, a former Anglican, noted that when they elected to have women priests, one of the supporters said that they had to do it because if they did not, “what would the world think?”

    While we need know what the world thinks in order to better minister to them, popular opinion, as Jeff said, is not the foundation of truth.

    I do think that there is going to be an uptick in interest in the new Anglican rite in the Catholic Church.

  3. The reality-beats-fiction story line here is that various MPs have threatened Parliamentary retaliation in the event of failure of this Synod proposal (see: .

    The Church of England being oppressed by Parliament. ::facepalm::

  4. Jeff all this problem is because there’s too many chiefs and not enough indians, in other words there’s just too many so called religions who think they know “IT” all. If only Victor’s spiritual reality cells would smarten UP and make U>S his true gods, we could correct all that ales ya and……

    STOP “IT” sinner vic! Are there not enough people laughing at me, myself and i NOW?

    Silly Victor! Make U>S (usual sinners) your gods and we’ll take good care of ya! As a matter of fact, we’ve even arranged for one of Queen Elizabeth’s reality spiritual three wings of time cells to send ya a little money and show ya that we meant business. We gods all got to get her, I mean together and we gods kept the sum of ($7.6 Million U.S. Dollars) (Seven million six hundred thousand united states dollars) to give ya so what do ya say Victor will ya honor U>S?

    My gut feeling tells me that every man has his price and me, myself and i have spoken to our “ONE” % cells soul and he says that “IT” is the same old tale the “The Crow” told him

    OK! Have “IT” your way again Victor butt someday you’ll regret “IT” all cause there ain’t no Adam and Eve and we’re the only gods who can help ya so smarten UP otherwise we’ll send ya back to one of your old cell’s birthday of Thursday 17 April 1704.

    Sorry sinner vic bu t all of U>S (usual sinners) or me, myself and i were born right after the second world war and if ya don’t believe, just ask “The Good Angel” who had spiritual sex with my good mother! 🙂

    And they still say that you’re not crazy Victor! Go Figure! 🙁


  5. Why not? Parliament has plenty of experience in oppressing everyone BUT Anglicans. And James VII (whom the English insist on calling “James II”) was vilified for resisting them. (Ask any Irishman about “the penal laws”).

  6. […] Holy Order Glass Ceiling – Jeff Miller, The Curt Jester […]

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