May 312012
 

WASHINGTON (AP) – The House on Thursday fell short in an effort to ban abortions based on the sex of the fetus as Republicans and Democrats made an election-year appeal for women’s votes.
The legislation would have made it a federal crime to perform or force a woman to undergo a sex-based abortion, a practice most common in some Asian countries where families wanting sons abort female fetuses.

It was a rare social issue to reach the House floor in a year when the economy has dominated the political conversation, and Republicans, besieged by Democratic claims that they are waging a war on women, struck back by trying to depict the vote as a women’s rights issue.

“It is violence against women,” said Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., of abortions of female fetuses. “This is the real war on women.”

The White House, most Democrats, abortion rights groups and some Asian-American organizations opposed the bill, saying it could lead to racial profiling of Asian-American women and subject doctors who do not report suspected sex-selection abortions to criminal charges.

Because there is no worse sin than racial-profiling. Killing a child because they are the wrong sex is acceptable just as long as there is no possibility of racial-profiling. Good thing our culture has its head screwed on right and all the priorities correct.

“The administration opposes gender discrimination in all forms, but the end result of this legislation would be to subject doctors to criminal prosecution if they fail to determine the motivations behind a very personal and private decision,” White House spokeswoman Jamie Smith said in a statement. “The government should not intrude in medical decisions or private family matters in this way.”

Ah, so they have seen the light in regards to hate crime laws now also. Oh wait you can prosecute people on motive in regards to race, but not in regards to gender-based abortion. Yeah totally consistent. Though on a practical level such a law would have been difficult to enforce.

Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the House’s No. 2 Democrat, said he thought the bill was introduced because “somebody decided politically that this was a difficult place to put people in.”

No doubt this is certainly true to some extent, but that is because if you have an inconsistent opinion it is really annoying to have the inconsistencies shown to light.

This is an area where even abortion supporters become uncomfortable. Then Sen. Clinton who ironically called the Partial Birth Abortion Ban a “slippery slope” has spoken out against Gender-based abortion before.

Clinton: “…Obviously, there’s work to be done in both India and China, because the infanticide rate of girl babies is still overwhelmingly high, and unfortunately with technology, parents are able to use sonograms to determine the sex of a baby, and to abort girl children simply because they’d rather have a boy.” (Hat tip: Thomas Peters)

Well it is not just India and China since it happens here also (but to a much lesser degree). The designer family is more and more of a mindset where ideally you have one of each – a kind of matched set. Two of the same kind spoil it and having three children or more is of course destructive to the environment.

The inconsistencies of the abortion supporters queasiness with this form of abortion selection is partly a real moral queasiness and the discomfiture of knowing that they can’t justify it based on their pro-abortion viewpoint.

  • If’s it only tissue mass, a result of conception, or any of the other obscuring phrases. Then it does not matter if the chromosomes are XX or XY.
  • If the women has total autonomy over her body, than she also has total autonomy to make a decision regardless of the reasons or motivations.
  • If it really is not a human being until born, than the gender of the fetus is also a non-issue. It is not like it is a “real” human female or male.
  • If viability is the determination to accept abortion, chromosomes don’t affect this viability.
  • If the ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights, than gender-based abortion is also a civil right.
  • If personhood begins at birth as abortion-advocates proclaim, then once again what is the big deal?
  • Some have argues that abortion reduces crime. So aborting male-children helps the crime rate since males commit most of the crimes.
  • If women can choose an abortion for financial reasons such as financial inconvenience than if it is true girls cost more to raise than boys – choosing to kill a girl is perfectly acceptable.

Now you can almost admire the President for his evil consistency. I only wish we could have a President as pro-life as President Obama is pro-abortion. That might be difficult to do for even a very pro-life candidate. When it comes to abortion the President will let nothing get in his way including the First Amendment.

(article)

  75 Responses to “Murdering your child based on gender is a very personal and private decision.”

  1. > Human fetuses are human persons, for example.

    Nope. A human person is a person and human fetus is a fetus, there are some subtle and overt differences the main one is people don’t live inside their mothers fetuses live nowhere else.

    So what is wrong about that statement?

    >Really, it’s useless to point out errors because, like I said, you won’t admit it.

    Because I have explained why in this instance I am not wrong, a fetus is a fetus and a person is a person. A fetus becomes a person of course just as a sperm and an become a fetus but we don’t treat sperms and eggs as people do we?

    >Have you ever spent more than a few minutes studying the word person? The way you use it leads me to think you don’t understand it very well.

    No, not studying it but I’m pretty sure I have a strong grasp on both the literal and figurative meaning and at no point does the term “Found living in a womb” enter into it.

    >Tell you what. I’m not interested in long conversations with you (for reasons I won’t bring up again).

    Ha! Ha! Cop outs are fun and easy and sure beat giving stuff thought!

    >Lastly, remember that sad fact that I’m entering a monastery?

    Why is it sad? Isn’t it what you want to do?

    >here and I won’t be able to try to help you through writing anymore.

    Ha! Ha! Yes! I need your help to believe that Roman and Neolithic superstitions are true! Again, such arrogance! Theism breeds such a unique species of the stuff.

    > May God bless you with the wonderful grace of conversion.

    And if no, oh well your loving just god will throw me into a pit of fire to be tortured forever and ever!

    Hey, do you know how the Roman Empire “graced” people into Christianity? By killing them until they agreed!

    Your god sure is great!

  2. > May God bless you for your good works.

    Ha! Ha! Yes! Sitting in front of your computer arguing with some guy on the Internet is “good works”! Oh yes, by all means, pat yourselves on the back for making the world a better place!

  3. “Nope. A human person is a person and human fetus is a fetus, there are some subtle and overt differences the main one is people don’t live inside their mothers fetuses live nowhere else”. This fetus according to your logic could become a lamp, a squirrel, a rock, eh? Neh, neh dear Canadian troll, this “mass of tissue” is a human being, not some other object. If you throw away religion and you look at our laws, everyone in thsi country is assured the right to pursue “happyness.” So if you kill this child or future human if you will, you have denied them their right according to the law of the land. Not sure how things are in Canada, but this is the way it is in the country just south of you.

  4. really, where someone lives dictates whether they are a human person? So locality is what determines the right to extinguish a life?

    “there are some subtle and overt differences the main one is people don’t live inside their mothers fetuses live nowhere else.”

    Why would a human fetus, if is not a person or even a life “live” anywhere?

  5. KYian – Thank you, I’ve enjoyed reading your posts. God bless you!

  6. As for an aversion to killing our own. I’d say most people do have an aversion to killing one another. Common sense would seem to indicate, unwanted children would never have become an issue if mothers and fathers weren’t at least somewhat averse to killing them. While some anthropologists ascribe to theory that humans are not adverse to killing one another, others do not agree. Here is one example: Paul “Jim” Roscoe, a University of Maine professor of anthropology and cooperating professor of Quaternary and climate studies, subscribes instead to an equally long-held theory that suggests just the opposite: humans actually have an innate aversion to killing. However, Roscoe believes that this natural aversion can be disabled when warfare is thought to be advantageous to a clan, a tribe or a nation.

  7. >This fetus according to your logic could become a lamp, a squirrel, a rock, eh?

    I literally said “A fetus becomes a person of course” and despite that being crystal clear you are still confused! I honestly can’t tell do you really not get it or is this just the way to avoid my actual points? A sort of “Uncle Leo” defense? You could just be thick, yes that is true.

    > this “mass of tissue” is a human being, not some other object.

    No, it’s a fetus and all living things (well above the single cell creatures and the like) are “mass of tissue”.

    > If you throw away religion and you look at our laws, everyone in thsi country is assured the right to pursue “happyness.”

    Quite right, a great law and if having the child makes the woman unhappy? Uh oh! See what I did there? I turned your silly point around on you but of course won’t explain why I’m wrong.

    > So if you kill this child or future human if you will, you have denied them their right according to the law of the land.

    And yet abortion is still legal in America!!??! What?!? How is that possible??!?! It.. it could mean… brace yourself… it could mean your argument is wrong and mine is right!

    > Not sure how things are in Canada, but this is the way it is in the country just south of you.

    It’s about the same actually, abortion is legal here too as it is pretty much every single Western nation on the planet, do you know what countries outlaw abortion? Iran, Saudi Arabia and other great bastions of freedom. I guess you’d say they do some stuff right over there huh?

  8. >really, where someone lives dictates whether they are a human person?

    No, being a person dictates whether or not they are a human person, a fetus is not a human person it is a human fetus.

    >So locality is what determines the right to extinguish a life?

    No, possession determines the right to extinguish a life, if that is in the womb of a woman that woman has the absolute right to say what happens to it.

    >Why would a human fetus, if is not a person or even a life “live” anywhere?

    See? Once again you guys take stuff I don’t say and then act like I did and that you’ve got me! Silly person, of course a fetus is a living thing but it lives inside a woman’s womb and she is the only one who can say what happens to it.

    Do you think you have the right to say what another person can do with their own bodies?

  9. Yes, I believe people have a right to say what happens to their bodies as long as that does not involve killing another human, whether it be a human fetus, human infant, human child, human adolescent or human adult. While you insist you have proven a human fetus is not a living human, you simply haven’t. You have only declared over and over where human fetuses live. Thanks for clarifying that for us! You have not shown any evidence showing anyone scientifically how a human fetus is not a human living being. Yes, a human fetus requires it’s mother’s uterus. A human infant requires his or her mother’s breasts for life giving nourishment (that still happens to be the normal, optimal way for infants to eat which you should know being such an anthropologist and all). Human infants still requite the full time care of other humans which also infringes greatly on those humans’ lives. You have yet to show any conclusive evidence as how this is different other than the location of the baby, nor have you shown how a human fetus magically transforms to a human infant during the trip through the birth canal trip. Actually, babies in the uterus are much lower maintenance than outside of the uterus.

  10. We’re walking out the door, and I just have time to briefly skim the posts. But I want to take a minute before I leave to address a question and correct any scandal I may have caused. Salvage, I referred to my entrance as “that sad fact” only because when I mentioned it a few weeks back, you said it was sad. I was just trying to jog your memory. Truly, I’ve never been happier. Sorry for the confusion. May God bless you. Sabine, thanks and keep up the good work!

  11. >Yes, I believe people have a right to say what happens to their bodies as long as that does not involve killing another human,

    Then you are pro choice because a fetus is not a human, it’s a fetus.

    > You have only declared over and over where human fetuses live.

    > Yes, a human fetus requires it’s mother’s uterus.

    Yes, because the fetus is part of the woman’s body and just like every other part of that body she is the only one who has any say as to what happens to it.

    This is not hard to understand, it’s weird that you can’t.

  12. Again, what sort of fetus are you talking about? A dog fetus is not a human. A human fetus can be nothing but a human; fetus is just the stage of development, like human infant, human adolescent and so on. Stages of development do not change the species. Scientifically, please explain how a individual human fetus’s body is part of his or her mother’s body? Any biology textbook will explain this to you and it is contrary to what yo maintain it is. Many links to books on embryology have already been provided to you. While you call me silly, smug and condescending and others passive aggressive and in the mean time pretend to be humored by our refusal to accept your pseudo science, we maintain a logical argument that a human fetus is, by scientific fact, a human being in a certain stage of development. Stages of development do not negate what species something is.

    More disturbing is your idea that people do *not* have an aversion to killing others. Does this mean you do not have an aversion to killing others? Or do you reserve you lack of aversion to killing to the most defenseless?

    Another thing, you said, “Once again you guys take stuff I don’t say and then act like I did …” I quoted you saying, “…people don’t live inside their mothers fetuses live nowhere else.” I asked you, if a fetus is not a life, why does a fetus “live” anywhere? One does not say, my heart lives in my chest or my kidneys live in the small of my back. Those are body parts, they don’t have a life of their own, hence they don’t “live” anywhere the way a fetus of any species does. You were the one that said a fetus lives inside it’s mother. At some point you said that it was of course some sort of life but not human – as if that makes any sort of sense! What sort of life is it?

  13. (((Yes, because the fetus is part of the woman’s body and just like every other part of that body she is the only one who has any say as to what happens to it.

    This is not hard to understand, it’s weird that you can’t.)))

    Look here Victor, tell your so called Christian friends to stop picking on salvage or else!

    OR ELSE WHAT sinner vic? You say “I” shouldn’t move slowly because the devil is in a hurry!? Look sinner vic if God doesn’t exist neither do you so don’t be telling me that we are picking on salvage?

    Victor! Victor! Victor! You have salvage talking in circle and like you, he and/or she is starting to forget what was really said and don’t you try to steal his identity cause you know that’s against the law cause as much as you would like to be him, You’re not HIM are ya Victor? :)

    Silly sinner vic! Ok let these words sentences below speak for themselves:
    >really, where someone lives dictates whether they are a human person? No, being a person dictates whether or not they are a human person, a fetus is not a human person it is a human fetus.
    >Why would a human fetus, if is not a person or even a life “live” anywhere? See? Once again you guys take stuff I don’t say and then act like I did and that you’ve got me! Silly person, of course a fetus is a living thing but it lives inside a woman’s womb and she is the only one who can say what happens to it. Do you think you have the right to say what another person can do with their own bodies?
    >Yes, I believe people have a right to say what happens to their bodies as long as that does not involve killing another human,) Then you are pro choice because a fetus is not a human, it’s a fetus.

    Prove “IT” to me Victor and show me where the mistake is?

    Come on sinner vic why can’t you meet me half way and simply agree that salvage agreed somewhere UP there that a fetus was human so let’s agree to disagree that he’s making a little progress would you not say so sinner vic?

    Alright Victor! Whatever you say as long as you keep the spiritual world out of “IT” in reality cause the last things none of U>S (usual sinners) want is the Saintly Cells of unknown fetus involved in our discussion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silent_Scream

    if ya know what “I” mean? :(

    Peace

  14. Also, you seriously do not know any key thematic differences between the Judeo-Christian creation story and other mythological creation stories? I know you likely will not bother but if you are interested in learning, the beginning of Walking with God by Jeff Cavins and Tim Gray is available on Amazon. The do an excellent job of explaining how the Old Testament was understood by the Jewish people, how we could read it today to understand it better and properly. They also point out what some of the differences are between varying creation stories.

  15. thanks again Vic, I’m starting to get “IT” or you or something, or maybe not! :-)

  16. >A human fetus can be nothing but a human; fetus is just the stage of development, like human infant, human adolescent and so on.

    Of course and I haven’t said otherwise, and quite right, the fetus is just the stage of development and as long as that stage of development is happening inside a woman’s body she has the only say as to what happens to it.

    I keep repeating this point and you keep on bring up stuff like dog and other chaff.

    Weird.

    >More disturbing is your idea that people do *not* have an aversion to killing others.

    Well it’s a combination of environmental factors but people do kill people every day for a wide variety of reasons, so obviously to say there is a hardwired aversion flies in the face of reality.

    We in North America are privileged in so many ways, one way is our peace and security, we don’t see how bad the world can be. Look south to Mexico for an example.

    > What sort of life is it?

    It’s a fetal life. Look you keep on trying to make the fetus out to be something or like something but it’s not, it’s unique, just as sex and procreation and abortion are all unique, singular things. They are unlike anything else in the human experience but above all they are private to the individual, it’s none of our business what other people do with their own bodies. I know you think your god gives you the right to tell other people what they can and cannot do but it really doesn’t.

  17. >Also, you seriously do not know any key thematic differences between the Judeo-Christian creation story and other mythological creation stories?

    Not really, they all follow the same themes, life made by a god, usually from nothing or something chaotic, a nemesis messes things up and people become the pawns in their endless cosmic chess match but they all have one thing in common; they don’t match up with the physical evidence that was unknown to them.

    The Egyptian version was the template for much of the Middle Eastern versions including Genesis which makes sense as it’s the oldest we know. The Babylonian one is a mash of Adam and Eve and Noah’s ark. The Australian and Native American ones are animal based, the South American ones are sort of a mix, the Japanese one has their god making Japan first and the rest of the world sort of an afterthought, the Chinese one has human beings starting off as bugs on the skin of their gods.

    And no, I’m not going to read some silly book that insists that 6 days means 4.5 billion years or some other “What the Bible really meant was the thing science said!” creationist pap.

  18. (((I know you think your god gives you the right to tell other people what they can and cannot do but it really doesn’t.)))

    Hey salvage! Don’t go breaking my bubble without proving “IT” to me cause “I” honesly believe that “I’AM” a god and as a matter of fact so our you. All we need is for you to con, I mean convince the unborn fetus to join U>S (usual sinners) and we’ll have a hell of an army if ya get my drift?

    STOP “IT” RIGHT NOW! sinner vic cause my Jesus Cell and/or Cells told me that my seed had to die first before we gods could multiply and as The World Turns, we’re not dead yet! Well at least me, myself and i know that “I’M” not! :)

    I hear ya! Prove “IT”! :(

    Peace

  19. (((And no, I’m not going to read some silly book that insists that 6 days means 4.5 billion years or some other “What the Bible really meant was the thing science said!” creationist pap.)))

    That a tell them salvage! Don’t believe in these so called Bible stories that say that GOD (Good Old Dad) created The Angels First and some of them went a stray down here on earth and and time started to change in ratio for them as far as this old man was concerned. For example His Years were about 1000 to “ONE” and then The Old Man decided to create Adam and Eve in His O=WN Image and because He LOVED US so much He created US in HIS OWN IMAGE. As a matter of spiritual fact, He took too long because “Some Angels” which GOD allowed around because let’s just say that He was a crazy fool in love. Anyway Adam and Eve were Ever no match against the love that These Angels had acculated and long story short, an angels seduced Eve and for about 4000 years the ratio changed to about 600 year to “ONE”. You guessed “IT” some were praying! Look salvage, we dogs of 1946 could go around and around chasing our tail but if truth be known all we really want is a good peace if ya get my drift. Before Victor cuts me off again salvage please don’t start believing these stories about animal year ratio to humans where they are about 7 to “ONE” ….Hey! Hang in there salvage because the alien gods have promised me that science would explain “IT” all in Dew Time.

    Hey what you doing sinner vic?

    Nothing! Nothing at all Victor! You can trust me cause “I” wouldn’t lie to you! :(

    OK! If you say so! :)

    Peace

  20. It’s interesting that some folks believe that a law is a law unless it is a Church law. Killing babies(future humans/fetuses) is peachy because there is a law that allows this genocide to occur. But if there is a belief, supported by Church law, it doesn’t matter. because it does not agree with the liberal socialist agenda where only the State is the higher authority. Sad. Abortion is murder, abortions based on gender selection is murder as well. Facts show that women that see a sonogram overwhelmingly(is this a word) choose life for their child rather than death. The liberal socialist anti God group now tries to spin the sonogram as a method to determine gender for selective murder. So sad. So sad. I keep hearing the sound of a toilet flushing and our morals and thics keep going down the drain.

  21. >It’s interesting that some folks believe that a law is a law unless it is a Church law.

    Example?

    > Killing babies(future humans/fetuses) is peachy because there is a law that allows this genocide to occur.

    Do you know what “genocide” means? Based on this statement I’d say no.

    >But if there is a belief, supported by Church law, it doesn’t matter.

    Example?

    >because it does not agree with the liberal socialist agenda where only the State is the higher authority.

    That would be the same State you pay taxes to and that can take away your freedom if you go against it? What higher authority is there? I know you want to say your god but since your god can’t actually do anything to enforce its authority until you’re dead it hardly counts.

    >Sad. Abortion is murder, abortions based on gender selection is murder as well.

    No, it’s not silly person.

    >Facts show that women that see a sonogram overwhelmingly(is this a word) choose life for their child rather than death.

    Please show us the proof of this “fact” because I think, once again, you’re doing what theists do, deciding they want something to be true and taking that as a “fact”.

    > The liberal socialist anti God group now tries to spin the sonogram as a method to determine gender for selective murder.

    And this group, it have a name? Can you show us this spin or is this just another made-up “fact”.

    >So sad. So sad. I keep hearing the sound of a toilet flushing and our morals and thics keep going down the drain.

    You mean this?:

    New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan authorized $20,000 payments to a handful of sexually abusive priests so they would immediately leave the Milwaukee archdiocese when Dolan was archbishop there nearly a decade ago, a church spokeswoman said on Thursday.

    http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/05/31/catholic-church-paid-handful-sexually-abusive-priests-to-leave-archdiocese/

    Yeah, that’s pretty awful, imagine that! You find out your employee has been raping children and rather than having them arrested you give them a stack of cash to quietly go away so they can rape children that aren’t your problem and save your business some bad press!

    What kind of cold cynical monster would do such a thing? Morals down the toilet? More like no morals to begin with!

    And Dolan claims it was a “Charity”! A secret charity that was only found out after a victims group went through the books and started asking questions. Talk about immorality, lying about lies!

    You are right to despair.

    Hey, if the rapists had used the $20,000 for a condom, then maybe you guys would be protesting all this?

  22. > Killing babies(future humans/fetuses) is peachy because there is a law that allows this genocide to occur.

    (((Do you know what “genocide” means? Based on this statement I’d say no.)))

    That a tell them salvage! They don’t know anything and if truth be known, they probably don’t even know their own name and if “I” we’re you “I” would just ignore them cause if you ask U>S gods, there’s no use talking to these so called Catholic fools. We gods must certainly have better things to do with our time instead of argueing with such silly people who believe that 1+1+1=1 and then they tell U>S (usual sinners) that their so call GOD (Good Old Dad) won’t really share any of His Power with U>S until we’re dead. Right NOW?

    Really trying not to laugh salvage butt “I” can’t help but thinking that without this so called 3 in 1 GOD of theirs which equal “ONE” who might really be needed in reality someday and we just don’t know about “IT”..

    Come on folks we gods and U>S 93% cells don’t need these so called body cell fetus cause you need no “ONE” else but U>S gods and if truth be known, who’s really been taking care of you humans for so long NOW?

    Salvage, between you and me, you’re an even bigger god than “ONE” of sinner vic cells but don’t get carried away cause if we put a cluster of our cells together, you gods don’t stand a chance NOW! Remember that love isn’t always on time! Unless you want to go around like a mental retarded devil who only has a few of our godly cells thinking that he’s going to do a LOT better with these so called 7% Jesus cells of Victor. Look salvage that would be like a, let say, a slow child just in case Victor’s GOD is listening, running around after having finished a reality spirial Grade “ONE” school and managed to get 7% and NOW, he’s going in and out into the real world bragging to so called human godly cells that he got seven on his exam which is out of 100% and by the way salvage, human being are still using that 100% scale I hope in reality and Catholic fools who allow gods, I mean dogs in church have not changed “it” yet, have they?

    Hey salvage we gods invite you to see some of the movies that we gods with alien cell help have created for these human to keep them in line cause you never know when and what these so call 7% Jesus cell gods of Victor might try to accumulate without dieting, I mean without dying first?

    ( The 3 god movie in “ONE” of reality’s twenty first century)

    http://videos.cineplex.com/All-Videos/1325590490001/Men-In-Black-III-Trailer-1/Video/

    http://videos.cineplex.com/All-Videos/1485525254001/Marvel-s-The-Avengers-Trailer-3/Video/

    http://www.tribute.ca/trailers/battleship/18626/
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=+++++++

    There they are above and don’t tell Victor’s heart of heart but we’ve seen them all in advance of course and to be honest with you salvage, working for the human man sure beats taking orders from U>S, these alien and you know these 3 in 1 movies were so good that we almost started to believe that we could also be free and break away from these alien gods.

    Come on salvage there’s no way that we have a slight chance that this GOD of Victor could be for real! Is there? Victor’s nothing but a “Dreamer who’s dreaming in Technicolor” Right?

    Whatever we do salvage, let’s not give UP our godly citizenship with the aliens cause we then would be under the control of Victor’s real trolling GOD. Right salvage cause Victor’s already given UP on U>s and he thinks that we’ve teamed UP with his god of 1946 or was that backward, whatever salvage, between you and me let Victor think what he wants cause “IT” is too late NOW cause dog are already in church helping these blind humans who really are all blind anyway and don’t get me started on this sexual abuse because between U>s gods, after what the so call catholics did to Victor and his family, his flesh cells would have been better off being sexually abused by NOW cause at least some of his cells would have enjoy “IT”. Right salvage, cause his so called GOD can’t help Victor can he salvage?

    http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fv-vf/facts-info/sex_abu.html

    Relax Victor and be like U>S, cause me, Jeff and salvage, we gods will continue to make sex with our tonic and gin if ya get me drift? :(

    High Victor! What are you doing here? You told U>S that you gave “IT” all UP to your imaginary GOD so what are you really doing here NOW?

    Just saying Hell OH sinner vic! :)

    Peace

  23. Hey, Victor! Came over here from Wesley’s blog and honestly this is the most wonderful exchange I have ever seen. Thanks for the link.

    (holyterror)

  24. Also, friends, the point of view espoused by salvage is a common one and based primarily in a philosophical belief that personhood is conferred gradually and certainly not until one is autonomous outside the womb.

    There is really no point in going back and forth over a philosophical difference, without going back to fundamentals to define personhood. Especially when one side (that would be salvage, in this conversation) works primarily by assertion alone, with a few arguments from minor logic and with the addition of snide insults and sarcasm to strengthen the position.

    My position on discussions like this is that people who care to exchange ideas for clarification, education and purposeful inquiry ought to do so, but people who just hang around to lob grenades and draw all the attention to themselves and their inner rants-in-need-of-audiences do not deserve the extended time. Especially when the use of insults is a favorite method.

  25. >based primarily in a philosophical belief that personhood is conferred gradually and certainly not until one is autonomous outside the womb.

    Yup, that’s it exactly, that and women have complete say over their bodies, that they’re not just human incubators who loose all autonomy the second the egg splits.

    As for insults, well snide I may be but my “insults” are more a long the line of pointing out sillyness and the fact that the Vatican / Holy See protected and paid off child rapists.

    I know you find talking about such things “insulting” but that doesn’t stop them from being true no matter how carefully you ignore it.

    Why is what I wonder. I can only assume that y’all don’t want to jeopardize your afterlife plans of paradise. I guess for a forever of happiness it’s an easy thing to ignore children being abused.

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