I recently read "Understanding Medjugorje Heavenly Vision or Religious Illusions" by Donal Foley. After my last post on this subject the Author sent me a copy of this book to review.
It was quite an interesting read and whatever you feelings are on this subject it is quite informative. The book is definitely in the critical camp on these alleged apparitions and I am in the same camp. There have been a lot of pro-Medjugorje books and very few that take a more skeptical view. During my conversion I had read a few books that supported these visions and even attended a talk by one of the "seers" Ivan Dragicevic. The information in Foley’s book presents both things I have read in the past and a lot of information that was totally skipped in book sympathetic to the "seers."
His book is broader though than just an examination of the seers. He places the events at Medjugorje firmly on historical background and gives an overall view of both the political and social climate surrounding the area. The dispute between the diocesan bishop and the Franciscans goes back hundreds of years. There has been a climate of disobedience by these Franciscans for quite a while and has been addressed multiple times by the Vatican with little result. The apparitions have done nothing to change this pattern. The author also gives the background of the individual seers and their family life.
One of the pieces of evidences he uses is a series of tapes that were recorded between the parish priest and the seers during the first week of these apparitions. That such tapes existed were something that I had never read in a pro-Medjugorje book. There is a very good reason for this. The information recorded and transcribed on these tapes contains a bit of odd information that supporters never allude to. For example the original visions happened after the group of seers had swiped some cigarettes and went off to listen to rock music. It was while smoking that the Gospa first appeared to them. One of the seers reports that Mary’s hand was shaking during this first vision. The interviews show the fact that during the first week of these so-called visions that the Gospa never spoke to them and in fact just did a lot of laughing. There were no messages at all.
The author throughout the book uses references from solid theologians on mystical experiences to contrast what was said by the seers. He compares authorized Marian apparitions, especially Fatima, with Medjugorje. He also gives a history of some apparitions that have been condemned by their local bishop. The contrasts really shine a negative light on Medjugorje. The only modern apparition that has similar points is Garabandal which has also been condemned by the local ordinary. Many people speak of the fruits of Medjugorje, especially of conversions. He describes the case of one visionary in the U.S. that also had many conversion with people going to confession and returning to the sacraments. This visionary had also been condemned by the local bishop, because not only did the messages go against Church teaching, but the Visionary didn’t even go to Mass and was rather anti-Catholic. I would think that people who become interested in supernatural apparitions are already favorable to conversion and when the sacrament are available there will always be good fruits.
The history of more than 25 years with 33,000 plus visions that have never been supported by both bishops of Mostar-Duvno or the Yugoslavian Bishop’s conference is filled with odd stories and outright disobedience. The book is worth reading just for the details of all these stories and how in the world did Medjugorje ever become a major pilgrimage site. Donal Foley details some of the reasons of how this happened and the context of which they happened. My jaw dropped repeatedly throughout the book of stories that some of the seers told. One that floored me though was that the Gospa had told one of the seers to read "The Poem of the Man-God." A book that use to be on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, a list that still carries "moral weight" as then-Cardinal Ratzinger said.
I could go on and on about these stories and you just have to read the find the details of when the bishop was attacked and kidnapped by the local Franciscans there. The biggest fruit of Medjugorje is disobedience by just about everybody involved. The messages have also been messaged at times. For example in one instance the Gospa called somebody a Judas for not believing in the apparitions. This message was later edited to say Doubting Thomas instead. But just the idea of Mary calling someone a Judas for not believing in a alleged private revelation is just not credible.
Fairly recently Bishop Ratko Peric of Medjugorje of said:
Therefore I responsibly call upon those who claim themselves to be “seers”, as well as those persons behind the “messages”, to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish. In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the Church, by neither placing private “apparitions” nor private sayings before the official position of the Church.
This has not stopped the public release of new messages since then. Rank disobedience is plainly not a sign of authentic seers. It is bad enough that promoters have time and again been disobedient and have spun and just plain lied about the apparitions and what the Church has spoken on the subject. The idea of disobedient visionaries who drive BMW’s, own large houses, and who go on speaking circuits and live off the apparitions is quite ridiculous.
13 comments
I hear what you are saying, Jeff. I thought the info about the tape recording from the first weeks, and the seers’ description of the Gospa therein, most interesting. Leave aside anything about cigarettes or personal disobedience or whatever – that alone was just astonishing. This apparently is a large part of the testimony the Yugoslavian bishops are now examining.
Rome has been very gentle with this but I think that time is ending. However, the fallout will be very painful . . . there is no joy in saying “I was right!” We must pray.
The disobedience is a big red flag. True Mystics and seers always stay obedient and faithful to Holy Church!
Good review Jeff. Even when bishops are wrong, ala Joan of Arc, she maintained a spirt of obedience. Bishop Ratko Peric gave the Visionaries an ultimatum, a chance to demonstrate obedience, and if they ignored it I think that speaks volumes.
I think Meg Q is right. Judging from the recent heppenings at the Vatican, there is hope that Rome will finally come down hard on the “seers” from Medjugorje. If and when that happens, the fallout wil be painful as Meg says.
I am so glad you’re addressing this subject. There is a faction of people in my parish that have almost formed a “cult” of belief in these visions and I love them so much (many are my good friends and relatives) but I almost feel like if I said one, teeny thing negative about the whole Medjugorje thing they would attack me like hungry dogs. I’ll have to read this book! I have always doubted the visions even since I was a young girl and my mom gave me a book about them (she believes in all that stuff). Even after I read the book (I was about 12 at the time), I thought the story was hinky. Thank you for this post to use as a jumping off point to study this issue further. And you’re right, Meg, there is NO joy in saying, “I was right!”. It stinks, quite frankly, and makes you lots of enemies.
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,Plasm CXXXVI WE must pray for Divine Mercy for all involved in this deception. D.R version
Hi Jeff,
I read the book too and completed it about two months ago. I’ve been wanting to write my review and just have not gotten to it. Your review could very well be mine, as you hit all the points perfectly.
In particular is the history which most people are oblivious to. They don’t realize that Franciscans were sent there originally in order to resolve a problem with the Bogomil heresy, which is similar to the Albigensiens of France. All supporters know is that “the bishop is at fault for the discord”. How many realize that there has been rampant disobedience by that province of Franciscans since 1879 when they thumbed their nose at the bull by Leo XIII? They thumbed their noses a few more times, most notably at Paul VI when he issued the decree Romanis Pontificibus, prior to the “apparitions”. This says nothing of the “gospa’s” defense of priests who were in the process of being disciplined for violations of Romanis Pontificibus. Supporters claim they are two separate issues, but this cannot be so when the “gospa” defends priests being disciplined by the Vatican itself, specifically Pope John Paul II. The Blessed Mother would surely have known about the impending disciplinary measures, and of the disobedient behaviors of the priests she allegedly had supported.
All I can say, Jeff, is get ready for one of the longest comboxes in the history of your blog as supporters find it and swarm in with cookie-cutter responses. My prayer is that they will balance out their understanding which has been based exclusively on half-truths and even untruths of promoters, with the other side of the story.
Noteworthy is the new website of Louis Belanger of the University of Montreal who was co-author of the one of the most referenced books in Foley’s: The Hidden Side of Medjugorje. There is absolutely, bar none, no greater resource book than this one, which has just become available again, through the co-author’s website. Out of nearly 400 pages, more than half are full length, unedited transcripts.
http://medjugorjehiddenside.info/
Go check it out. I have also purchased another book written by the other co-author of that book, Fr. Ivo Sivric (deceased) called “the Peasant Culture of Bosnia and Herzegovina”, in which he explores more deeply the cultural things which could fuel something like Medjugorje (he was born in that village and received his PhD in Zagreb and Rome). He is the one who went deeply into the Bogomil history of that area, and alleged that there are still elements of it today. This has been the whole basis of the Vatican’s attempts, since 1879 to hand over parishes to the diocesan bishop.
It’s a great book and I wish I could give it to everyone who is a Medjugorje believer.
Having been there myself and having experienced some of the things that I did… I am at a loss as to what to really believe about these “apparitions.” I have experienced the Miracle of the Sun, rosaries turning a gold color, among other things. I am a cautious type, not easily moved one way or another, but obedience is one of our primary responsibilites as Catholics. If, through a pilgrimage, people come back to the Faith or have their faith strengthened and they practice it with humble obedience, the fruits are good.
Whatever the particulars might be surroundng the “visionaries,” and I use that term cautiously, their drama pales in comparison to a packed church, day after day, 5 or 6 masses in the morning, confession available all afternoon every afternoon. Night after night, until 10 or 11 o’clock for 2 hour long adoration meditations after a Croatian mass and rosary.
I don’t know, I am conflicted. I know what going there did for me. I put no faith in the “visionaries,” no faith in the men and no faith in the culture (cult?) of Medjugorje, but going there and experiencing what I did changed me forever. Strengthed my faith, and converted my heart.
Hi Jeff, I just came across your blog today and read your excellent review of Donal Foley’s book. I also wrote a review, but mine is from the perspective of a former believer in the apparitions. Foley’s book helped convince me that the apparition is not the Virgin Mary. The review is here:
http://members.aol.com/fmrega7/medreview.htm
Thanks!
Frank
Thanks, Jeff, for the thorough, factual information on Mejurgorje. I happened to have pick up a mini newspaper, from a Catholic Church (!!!) written by Wayne Weible and what he wrote didn’t “jive” with either Fatima or Lourdes. Immediately, I wondered why those who claimed to see Mary were not living their lives as the Fatima children and as Bernadette had. Of course, Weible never commented on that, at all, and, as you state, he “believes” Mary “visits” ordinary people. This cannot be so because purity cannot tolerate impurity to any great degree, as is, more or less, the case with those who claim they have seen Mary. Weible seriously misunderstands this fact, but, (1) he’s a Protestant and there’s the first problem and (2) no doubt, he’s made a measure of money off his promotions. Another serious point he “omitted” is the fact that one of the boys, I believe it’s the older boy, stated that the hands of the “woman in the apparition” were shaking. This is scarey and this is not Mary. Also, the laughing attested to by more than one of them, is another indication that this is not Mary, and we, of course, base our key indications of identification on Fatima and Lourdes. Daily prayers need to be said by all, so add this situation to “the daily list”, and, honestly, the Vatican needs to “just say no”. The Franciscans need to be taken out of the region, each one needs to be placed, individually, into situations where they are surrounded by the Faithful and the obedient, and, if need be, an order of Faithful, obedient Francisans needs to be substituted. One more point regarding the information in Weible’s mini newsapaper: he claims those who see the apparition state that the women says believes of all religions will “be saved”. I seriously doubt Mary would say this since Mary points to Christ, every time. Therefore, Weible is promoting heresy, at best. Again, Jeff, thank you for the information.
Thanks, Jeff, for the thorough, factual information on Mejurgorje. I happened to have pick up a mini newspaper, from a Catholic Church (!!!) written by Wayne Weible and what he wrote didn’t “jive” with either Fatima or Lourdes. Immediately, I wondered why those who claimed to see Mary were not living their lives as the Fatima children and as Bernadette had. Of course, Weible never commented on that, at all, and, as you state, he “believes” Mary “visits” ordinary people. This cannot be so because purity cannot tolerate impurity to any great degree, as is, more or less, the case with those who claim they have seen Mary. Weible seriously misunderstands this fact, but, (1) he’s a Protestant and there’s the first problem and (2) no doubt, he’s made a measure of money off his promotions. Another serious point he “omitted” is the fact that one of the boys, I believe it’s the older boy, stated that the hands of the “woman in the apparition” were shaking. This is scarey and this is not Mary. Also, the laughing attested to by more than one of them, is another indication that this is not Mary, and we, of course, base our key indications of identification on Fatima and Lourdes. Daily prayers need to be said by all, so add this situation to “the daily list”, and, honestly, the Vatican needs to “just say no”. The Franciscans need to be taken out of the region, each one needs to be placed, individually, into situations where they are surrounded by the Faithful and the obedient, and, if need be, an order of Faithful, obedient Francisans needs to be substituted. One more point regarding the information in Weible’s mini newsapaper: he claims those who see the apparition state that the women says believers of all religions will “be saved”. I seriously doubt Mary would say this since Mary points to Christ, every time. Therefore, Weible is promoting heresy, at best. Again, Jeff, thank you for the information.
Sorry for the inadvertant double posting.
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