I was confirmed in the archdiocese of San Francisco (just north of SJ) two years ago, and while I wasn’t that big on the RoE service, thankfully it was not as bad as SJ. Our service was, of course, in 4 languages. (Why is it that the modernists are so against Latin in the liturgy, Latin, the common language of the Western Church; but then insist on Mass in English and Spanish and Tagalog and Chinese, meaning almost no one there can understand the entire thing? But I digress…) But when did leaping in the womb constitute a “jig”? The scriptural justifications are incredible… OK, there is dancing in scripture… But the combo of bootie-shaking and whirling dervish seen in this RoE would have been totally alien and probably offensive to the ancients.
ClaytonMarch 21, 2009 - 4:23 pm
What a way to begin Lent indeed! And to inflict Lent on others!
I may not have joined the Catholic Church if I had to go through that.
RussMarch 21, 2009 - 6:06 pm
Ugh.
I have been to mass been to mass at that cathedral on several occasions while on business trips.
It is a no kneel zone.
And I hate it when the inaccurate and disingenuous term “work of the people” is used for liturgy.
Laura KMarch 21, 2009 - 7:42 pm
The rite of election, at least in our diocese, is not part of a mass. This right does not betray old, more stuffy versions that are a process more than a celebration. As an RCIA sponsor, I would have loved a little more exuberance in our local rite.
I’m pretty conservative liturgically, but for church celebrations outside the mass, there is nothing wrong with clapping, singing, and dancing as if we actually are thrilled to be there.
BillyHWMarch 21, 2009 - 7:53 pm
Watching that video is quite the stupendous lenten penance.
PhoebeMarch 21, 2009 - 8:00 pm
I’m glad I wasn’t faced with this kind of humiliating play-acting when I became a Catholic so many years ago. In fact, it would have seemed so much like play-acting and self-congratulation to me that I’d have wondered whether anyone was taking the Faith seriously … and therefore whether I might not be making a mistake.
And what happens if a catechumen does object to prancing around like this? Is he or she denied baptism? Is he or she scolded? Mocked? Or what?
This is right up there with giving up holy water for Lent.
Judy JohnwonMarch 22, 2009 - 1:46 am
ouch…as someone whose husband joined the Church last year (God graciously brought him to faith 17 years after my own conversion; we’ve been married 22 years and niether of us were Catholic when we married) I can say that, if he had to be subjected to those theatrics, he would have run out the door of the RCIA classroom, and never returned. Praise God that it is not this way everywhere.
Judy JohnwonMarch 22, 2009 - 1:47 am
ouch…as someone whose husband joined the Church last year (God graciously brought him to faith 17 years after my own conversion; we’ve been married 22 years and niether of us were Catholic when we married) I can say that, if he had to be subjected to those theatrics, he would have run out the door of the RCIA classroom, and never returned. Praise God that it is not this way everywhere.
not dancingMarch 22, 2009 - 2:11 am
the DSJ is spiritually anemic. trust me, I live in it. these kinds of theatrics are compensating for a deep, painful lack of spiritual direction and grounding in the Faith. in other DSJ liturgical news, at the cathedral’s Holy Thursday Mass members of the assembly wash each other’s feet. if the term “social justice” couldn’t be used, the diocesan newspaper would have only about two pages of stories in it every month. the DSJ should be embarrassed that that video is available for the public to see.
As Joe of St. Thérèse rightly said:
“AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!”
JoeMarch 22, 2009 - 6:44 am
The cantor has a beautiful voice though.
MargueriteMarch 22, 2009 - 9:33 am
Is this nonsense what we need to engage people’s faith today? What happened to reverence, dignity and holiness in church? If this is holiness then I might as well go to a Broadway musical–there is no difference.
the DSJ is spiritually anemic. trust me, I live in it. these kinds of theatrics are compensating for a deep, painful lack of spiritual direction and grounding in the Faith.
I’d be interested to know what kind of vocations and number of seminarians they have.
FSBMarch 22, 2009 - 1:45 pm
Scott W.,
You’d be surprised about that I’d wager; I know I was. DSJ has about 20 seminarians and the ones I know are mostly pretty solid – I’m a seminarian for another diocese and DSJ sends most of them here. I hope they can clean up their diocese once they’re out in the parishes. I attended Mass at a parish in DSJ once – never again.
Well, it looks like a day to remember for all involved, for all the wrong reasons.
I have logged back on after about an hour of having watched that video because that dreadful singing is stuck in my head: “Catechumens from St. Francis of Assisi; stand up! and be counted!”. Gargh. It sticks in your head like an advertising jingle.
Well, it looks like a day to remember for all involved, for all the wrong reasons.
I have logged back on after about an hour of having watched that video because that dreadful singing is stuck in my head: “Catechumens from St. Francis of Assisi; stand up! and be counted!”. Gargh. It sticks in your head like an advertising jingle.
graveyMarch 22, 2009 - 2:26 pm
The Dioceses of San Jose, Oakland and S.F. are an education and liturgical mess. Things are getting better at St. Patrick Seminary. Except for the Dominican School at GTU in Berkeley, the other colleges in the Bay Area can hardly be called Catholic, specifically USF, St Mary’s in Moraga, Santa Clara in San Jose, Holy Names in Oakland, Jesuit School at GTU and Franciscan School at GTU.
Gerard & JenniferMarch 22, 2009 - 2:28 pm
Add our names to the list of converts who would have experienced serious doubts if subjected to a scene such as this. It was a long, sometimes difficult joureny as we dug into the history of the modern American evangelical movement that ultimately brought us home to the Catholic Church. We will be received into the Church at Easter Vigil… in our awesome, orthodox parish. We routinely thank our dear priest for his zeal for orthodoxy and commitment to an edifying and beautiful liturgy… all without the clapping and “dancing” books.
Fr. KowalskiMarch 22, 2009 - 10:52 pm
Wow- all the more reason my parish doesn’t get involved in this stuff- I was embarrassed just watching the video- and it seems like the person who wrote the glowing blog report didn’t see the same thing I did- i only saw a FEW people dancing “exuberantly” with the book- most just seemed to be standing there awkwardly trying to make the best of the whole thing- is this what Catholic liturgy has brought us? I for one and standing up to be counted saying, “No way”.
Thanks Jester, now I have to go to the doc. (Tried to scratch my eyes out.) If I had had to do that, I think I might have jumped over to the Greeks. The worst part was the vacuous justifications of the presenting blog. This is the Latin Rite, we don’t dance in church; period. Doesn’t matter if it isn’t a Mass, it is still liturgy and there are rubrics.
So I “dance” every time I bless myself with holy water? That’s a new one.
scruplespoonMarch 24, 2009 - 6:13 am
And I thought my diocese was liberal and lax on its liturgy.
I’m just hoping both the liturgy co-ordinator of my diocese and that of my parish DO NOT see this video, otherwise there will be a copycat of it next year.
27 comments
I was confirmed in the archdiocese of San Francisco (just north of SJ) two years ago, and while I wasn’t that big on the RoE service, thankfully it was not as bad as SJ. Our service was, of course, in 4 languages. (Why is it that the modernists are so against Latin in the liturgy, Latin, the common language of the Western Church; but then insist on Mass in English and Spanish and Tagalog and Chinese, meaning almost no one there can understand the entire thing? But I digress…) But when did leaping in the womb constitute a “jig”? The scriptural justifications are incredible… OK, there is dancing in scripture… But the combo of bootie-shaking and whirling dervish seen in this RoE would have been totally alien and probably offensive to the ancients.
What a way to begin Lent indeed! And to inflict Lent on others!
I may not have joined the Catholic Church if I had to go through that.
Ugh.
I have been to mass been to mass at that cathedral on several occasions while on business trips.
It is a no kneel zone.
And I hate it when the inaccurate and disingenuous term “work of the people” is used for liturgy.
The rite of election, at least in our diocese, is not part of a mass. This right does not betray old, more stuffy versions that are a process more than a celebration. As an RCIA sponsor, I would have loved a little more exuberance in our local rite.
I’m pretty conservative liturgically, but for church celebrations outside the mass, there is nothing wrong with clapping, singing, and dancing as if we actually are thrilled to be there.
Watching that video is quite the stupendous lenten penance.
I’m glad I wasn’t faced with this kind of humiliating play-acting when I became a Catholic so many years ago. In fact, it would have seemed so much like play-acting and self-congratulation to me that I’d have wondered whether anyone was taking the Faith seriously … and therefore whether I might not be making a mistake.
And what happens if a catechumen does object to prancing around like this? Is he or she denied baptism? Is he or she scolded? Mocked? Or what?
Ugh.
AHhhhhh
This is right up there with giving up holy water for Lent.
ouch…as someone whose husband joined the Church last year (God graciously brought him to faith 17 years after my own conversion; we’ve been married 22 years and niether of us were Catholic when we married) I can say that, if he had to be subjected to those theatrics, he would have run out the door of the RCIA classroom, and never returned. Praise God that it is not this way everywhere.
ouch…as someone whose husband joined the Church last year (God graciously brought him to faith 17 years after my own conversion; we’ve been married 22 years and niether of us were Catholic when we married) I can say that, if he had to be subjected to those theatrics, he would have run out the door of the RCIA classroom, and never returned. Praise God that it is not this way everywhere.
the DSJ is spiritually anemic. trust me, I live in it. these kinds of theatrics are compensating for a deep, painful lack of spiritual direction and grounding in the Faith. in other DSJ liturgical news, at the cathedral’s Holy Thursday Mass members of the assembly wash each other’s feet. if the term “social justice” couldn’t be used, the diocesan newspaper would have only about two pages of stories in it every month. the DSJ should be embarrassed that that video is available for the public to see.
As Joe of St. Thérèse rightly said:
“AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!”
The cantor has a beautiful voice though.
Is this nonsense what we need to engage people’s faith today? What happened to reverence, dignity and holiness in church? If this is holiness then I might as well go to a Broadway musical–there is no difference.
The cantor has a beautiful voice though.
Yes. Perfect for a reboot of Up with People!. For liturgy? Not so much.
the DSJ is spiritually anemic. trust me, I live in it. these kinds of theatrics are compensating for a deep, painful lack of spiritual direction and grounding in the Faith.
I’d be interested to know what kind of vocations and number of seminarians they have.
Scott W.,
You’d be surprised about that I’d wager; I know I was. DSJ has about 20 seminarians and the ones I know are mostly pretty solid – I’m a seminarian for another diocese and DSJ sends most of them here. I hope they can clean up their diocese once they’re out in the parishes. I attended Mass at a parish in DSJ once – never again.
Well, it looks like a day to remember for all involved, for all the wrong reasons.
I have logged back on after about an hour of having watched that video because that dreadful singing is stuck in my head: “Catechumens from St. Francis of Assisi; stand up! and be counted!”. Gargh. It sticks in your head like an advertising jingle.
Well, it looks like a day to remember for all involved, for all the wrong reasons.
I have logged back on after about an hour of having watched that video because that dreadful singing is stuck in my head: “Catechumens from St. Francis of Assisi; stand up! and be counted!”. Gargh. It sticks in your head like an advertising jingle.
The Dioceses of San Jose, Oakland and S.F. are an education and liturgical mess. Things are getting better at St. Patrick Seminary. Except for the Dominican School at GTU in Berkeley, the other colleges in the Bay Area can hardly be called Catholic, specifically USF, St Mary’s in Moraga, Santa Clara in San Jose, Holy Names in Oakland, Jesuit School at GTU and Franciscan School at GTU.
Add our names to the list of converts who would have experienced serious doubts if subjected to a scene such as this. It was a long, sometimes difficult joureny as we dug into the history of the modern American evangelical movement that ultimately brought us home to the Catholic Church. We will be received into the Church at Easter Vigil… in our awesome, orthodox parish. We routinely thank our dear priest for his zeal for orthodoxy and commitment to an edifying and beautiful liturgy… all without the clapping and “dancing” books.
Wow- all the more reason my parish doesn’t get involved in this stuff- I was embarrassed just watching the video- and it seems like the person who wrote the glowing blog report didn’t see the same thing I did- i only saw a FEW people dancing “exuberantly” with the book- most just seemed to be standing there awkwardly trying to make the best of the whole thing- is this what Catholic liturgy has brought us? I for one and standing up to be counted saying, “No way”.
Thanks Jester, now I have to go to the doc. (Tried to scratch my eyes out.) If I had had to do that, I think I might have jumped over to the Greeks. The worst part was the vacuous justifications of the presenting blog. This is the Latin Rite, we don’t dance in church; period. Doesn’t matter if it isn’t a Mass, it is still liturgy and there are rubrics.
So I “dance” every time I bless myself with holy water? That’s a new one.
And I thought my diocese was liberal and lax on its liturgy.
I’m just hoping both the liturgy co-ordinator of my diocese and that of my parish DO NOT see this video, otherwise there will be a copycat of it next year.
yeah… as a convert, if I had to be subjected to that horse hit I never would have completed RCIA either.
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