Gerald has both the video and pictures of Bishop Tod Brown refusing to give Communion to a women kneeling and tried to pull her up. He also has the testimony of the women which appears to match the footage. I guess he didn’t get the memo that the norm obtained for the GIRM in the U.S. says.
160. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.
I use to always kneel to receive Communion, now I receive standing as it is the norm approved for the United States by the Vatican. I though had the opposite reaction at first. The EEM at my parish when he saw me standing to receive instead of kneeling told me that I could continue to kneel when I receive. I know that I could do this, but it wasn’t the norm and what good is obedience if you only obey on things you agree with? I do wish that we would just go back to the Communion rail instead. From what I have observed at the Latin Mass at my parish is that the Communion rail is just as efficient as far as time goes in distributing Communion. Plus it has the added benefit of preparing yourself a little bit ahead of time instead of just shuffling forward. Is there anything that prevents the use of the Communion rail in the new Mass? (Besides them being ripped out in some parishes)
Now if you happen to be a homosexual activist and wear a rainbow sash to Mass, no problem you will get to receive Communion; just as long as you are not kneeling.
Well, the Mass takes place in an ugly church, accompanied by mexican oompahpah music, so a mean bishop goes well with all that.
He’s very leniant when it comes to homosexual activists, of course.
Maybe a separate Rite should be created, for those opposed to bongo Masses and one-man/woman-shows. Make it similar to the Anglican Use and let people create Tridentine parishes. Especially in California, Masses are often sloppy and dumbed down painfully.
Pictures of Bishop Tod Brown at a mass with dancing girls:
The parish I grew up in has an altar rail! 🙂
The Church itself was built in the mid 1960s – without an altar rail. Our parish priest had one installed about eight years ago and now pretty much everyone kneels to receive communion. You still have the option of standing, but the vast majority kneel.
Is there anything that prevents the use of the Communion rail in the new Mass? (Besides them being ripped out in some parishes)
Apparently not. In our case the altar rail wasn’t ripped out. It was added.
That’s my local bishop – any wonder why my own personal nickname for him is “Lord Voldemort?”
I had a priest actually do the whole whisper/yell thing at me about that, in the communion line. I mean… he had that look in his eyes where they might as well have glowed red for all the venom spewing out of them. I was 19 at the time. I just went back to the pew and cried the whole rest of mass.
I guess I should mention… Other than the very few times I’ve been to a church where they actually USED the communion rails… I haven’t tried to kneel at communion again. I may come off as a big fat you-know-what, but really I just dont think I could take getting yelled at like that again. And it was by a priest at the cathedral in the major city I was in at the time.
Three times I’ve been refused communion because I preferred to receive in the mouth and not in the hand. And these times were way after the SARS threat was over.
Here’s two interesting quotes from “The Spirit of the Liturgy.” by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
Again, there is a story that comes from the sayings of the Desert Fathers, according to which the devil was compelled by God to show himself to a certain Abba Apollo. He looked black and ugly, with frighteningly thin limbs, but, most strikingly, he had no knees. The inability to kneel is seen as the very essence of the diabolical. Pg. 193 (emphasis in original)
The man who learns to believe learns also to kneel, and a faith or a liturgy no longer familiar with kneeling would be sick at the core. Were it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs, in fellowship with the whole cosmos, indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself, Pg. 194
Kneeling to receive is one of those physical things that reinforces what you are doing, and the sensation of humbling yourself to receive stays with you.
One thing that sparked my return to the Church was remembrance of kneeling (at the rail on the tongue with the altar boy holding the platen under chin). I had this vision of myself at age 8 receving communion, and that sparked me to return to the Catholic faith.
I just pray that someday our parish Church will have kneelers. We stand for everything. Some do kneel. We were raising money to build a new Church, but most think the current facility is just fine. I also am frustrated with the fact that the Blessed Sacrament is in a separate room.
Tammy and Cristina: you demonstrated physical reverence for the Body of Christ and for that — were scorned.
I am overwhelmed by the significance of that, particularly THIS WEEK!!!
These were the women of Jerusalem, Veronica, who loved the battered, mocked and crucified Christ all the way to the Cross.
God love you!
Anyone who is scolded for showing reverence to the Blessed Sacrament should scold right back. How dare any priest scold a faithful Catholic for reverencing Our Lord.
And write to his bishop with a request that the bishop advise you of what action he will take against the offending priest. If none, or it it’s a bishop, write to the Vatican and report both of them.
We have a woman in our parish who always kneels to receive Communion. Our pastor bends down, places the Host on her tongue and it’s over. No problem.
Anyone have an idea what motivates these priests to make an issue of this?
Several commenters at Gerald’s place took a familiar line about bishops. This was my response:
I find it odd that many good Catholics think that whatever a Bishop chooses to do is okay and it cannot constitute an abuse. Even the Pope cannot do whatever he likes with the liturgy.
I don’t kneel for communion either in such situations, but I too respect those who do. The Bishop does not have the RIGHT to insist that those under his care stand and he does not have the RIGHT to deny them communion if they do kneel.
Cardinal Ratzinger complains in several places that we have been given the false impression by the way liturgical change was instituted after Vatican Two that the Church can just change whatever she pleases liturgically, rather than being the servant of tradition. The Faithful have a longstanding attachment to the practice of kneeling and that not only SHOULD be respected but MUST be respected by bishops. A bishop who figures he can go it alone forfeits the respect and obedience of his flock who obey him only BECAUSE he is a representative of the College of Apostles as a whole.
Had this woman sought my counsel before she went to communion, I would have advised her to stand and not to kneel. I would also have advised her that if she was asked to stand, she should obey (which she did in the end.) But she was at LIBERTY to kneel and the bishop had NO RIGHT to deny her communion because she knelt. He is the one who is shockingly at fault.
Funny you would think a RAINBOW sasher would be inclined to Kneel
I grew up in the 50s and 60s under the Latin Rite. That was when Churches were actually full. Full to the point of people standing 3 or 4 rows deep at the back of the church due to an absence of seats. And, this was in the School Auditorium that had seating for 750 people (while the Church next door also conducted another, albiet smaller, Mass).
Yet, without a team of Extraordinary Ministers high fiving themselves like basketball players entering onto the court, two priests would serve everyone the Holy Eucharest while they were kneeling, deliver a meaningful and heartfelt homily, and officiate at a respectful Mass, and still get everyone out in 45 minutes so the next Mass (also filled to overflowing) could begin at the top of the hour. It’s amazing what the Holy Spirit makes possible.
The “norm” of standing in the US was allowed by the Holy See only because the frauds running the BCL at the time swore up and down that “everybody in the US” stands…
That was after they had managed to remove the Communion rails from most parishes.
I will obey Rome’s directive, which prefers KNEELING.
Your mileage may vary…
When in the communion line, I genuflect while the person ahead of me is receiving, and then I stand and receive on the tongue (I’m usually either holding a baby or a toddler’s hand).
On the day when I am “corrected” about this practice, I intend to ask what the norm is. When I’m told (it’s to bow the head briefly before receiving, in my diocese), I’ll ask if everyone else does that. When the person admits that many don’t do that, I’ll ask if they are being corrected. The punchline will be, “so you correct those who show too much reverence, but not those who show too little?”
The Basilica of St Patrick in Ottawa(Canada) has a communion rail and uses it as the norm. Other than the communion rail and kneeling to recieve it is a normal Novus Ordo parish.
Our parish priest (who is one of the holiest people I’ve had the pleasure of knowing) stresses that we should make a sign of reverence before receiving Communion: either genuflecting or making the sign of the cross or something else of our choosing–but we should do *something.* I’ve never tried to kneel before him, but I’m not sure how that would work.
About ten years ago, I went into daily Mass at my father’s parish, I was stunned to see a Communion rail in use. I’ve been a lifelong Catholic (since 1972) and never saw that before. And people were kneeling! I was in the wrong part of the church to receive there (I was on the standing side) but I made sure to get there the next day and go on the kneeling side, and wow. 🙂 Even now just remembering it makes my little conservative heart go aflutter. 🙂 🙂 🙂
The overall effect was, even though I had to walk about a mile with no sidewalks and cars zipping past, and past the nice young men loitering on the street corners, I made it to daily Mass every day for the rest of my visit because whenver I thought I didn’t want to go, I’d say to myself, “But when am I going to get a chance to kneel for Communion again?” and I’d haul myself out the door.
God bless the Traditional Latin (I would even settle for the “Latin Mass in English as would most so called “traditionals””-What is taking place these past years is a horror to God and all reverent Catholics, at least the Protestant church’s are open in their denial of the real presence, the Vatican II church, and yes a distinguishment must be made as it is a New Church, masks under the cover of being Catholic but it is not, not with the ilk of Mahoney a Cardinal in one of the biggest cities in the US allowed to flourish and many more like him. You cant blame B16, if he did away with all of the homosexual priests, Bishops and Cardinals and then the “heretics” like Mahoney, he would have no clergy left!
On the day when I am “corrected” about this practice, I intend to ask what the norm is. When I’m told (it’s to bow the head briefly before receiving, in my diocese), I’ll ask if everyone else does that. When the person admits that many don’t do that, I’ll ask if they are being corrected. The punchline will be,
You won’t need a punchline, Paul…this is beautiful!