Fr. Martin Fox has a great post "Weekly Standard: throw prolifers under the bus" about all of the Rudy Giuliani support.
Also Jay Anderson posts in response to Fr. Fox’s post Weekly Standard to Pro-Lifers: Shut Up and Eat Your Peas.
I have found all this Giuliani apologetics in recent weeks to be quite sickening. Why is the GOP looking for their own version of President Clinton? Whatever happened to character mattering which was the bugle call during the Clinton years?
We hear that he will give us judges in the mode of Scalia as the constant refrain. That even though he is pro-abortion he will vote the right way on these issues. So I guess now if a candidate is a hypocrite it is okay as long he votes with us. It doesn’t matter what he believes, it is how he acts. Now we have come to find this quite common among Democrats in how their personally held opinions won’t affect how they vote, and they were rightly mocked for this total lack of personal integrity. Now though we are using open-arms to welcome candidates with the exact same schism between beliefs and actions. Only it is acceptable if the personal schism goes the right way.
Though this idea of Giuliani appointing judges that are strict constructionalist is pretty laughable. He didn’t do this in his eight years as mayor where he appointed Democrats over Republicans 8 to 1 with many outright abortion supporters. His pick of judges was praised by NARAL Pro-Choice New York.
Somehow I guess we are suppose to ignore all of his character flaws, affairs, and being the wrong side on so many issues because he will be good concerning the war on terror. That he can be wrong on so many issues of much importance, yet he will be near flawless in his choices in the fight against terrorism. Responding quite well in aftermath of the 9/11 attack does not mean that he will make the right moral choices in fighting terrorism.
Giuliani I mentioned would be our version of Bill Clinton in many ways, and in many others he will be our version of John Kerry. Kerry is a Catholic who is personally opposed, yet would vote for abortion. Giuliani as a Catholic is personally for but will vote against it. They are flip-flop mirror images of each other concerning abortion though they are quite syncopated on many other social issues. Why in the world is so many in the GOP running down the hill to make their first Catholic nominee someone hardly distinguishable from Democratic versions of the same? Exactly where is the clamor for Communion to be denied for Rudy as there was for John Kerry? Though Rudy isn’t the nominee yet and I hope the day never comes where he is.
29 comments
Rich,
Is it disturbing you more that Democrats have used that argument in past elections, or that in this particular case, they may be right?
“Though Rudy isn’t the nominee yet and I hope the day never comes where he is.”
But just wait. When he is the GOP candidate we will the same line pulled out: that we have to vote for him because he is the Great White Hope for Pro-Life (even though he isn’t). They fooled us with Bush and with the whole Republican Congress which never did anything against abortion.
Sorry, but I am bitterly angry that we have to vote for these GOP schmucks becuase they pretend to be pro-life. I will write in Brownback or the Pope when the time comes and pray for a party with actual values to coalesce.
The ONLY silver lining to Rudy being the GOP candidate is MAYBE we will see the bishops get serious about excommunicating pro-lifers (though maybe Rudy is already a non-practicing Catholic already, not sure.)
Rudy does have some admirable traits and I would have loved to see him as say Secertary of State or something, but the day the GOP runs a pro-choicer is the day it implodes.
In an election between Rudy and Hillary the pro-lifer has only one choice, draft Stephen Colbert to run!
Still election is a long way away, Rudy is a media darling, and other than the big three candiates, other Republicans, like Sam Brownback are getting no exposure, a lot can happen between now and Iowa.
I will not vote for Rudy McRomney. Tancredo or Brownback, please.
Jeff,
I couldn’t agree with you more. Unless he ‘publicly’ states that he will appoint strictly conservative judges or become pro-life, NONE of us Catholics who read your blog or declare themselves practicing Catholics should NOT vote for this anathema of a human being.
I will vote for a third party candidate if Mr. Guiliani becomes the GOP candidate for the POTUS.
May God give us all the strength to stand for our faith and not for the lust of power.
It is amazing how many Catholic candidates of all parties, on both sides of the 49th parallel have to be rejected by serious Catholics because of their public moral stand.
The question is, by choosing not to vote for somebody like Rudy, are you ready for 4 or 8 years of a Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama presidency? As much as I despise what the republican party is standing for lately, I am not ready for people who believe that they can just “take away” profits from private businesses, I’m not ready for my parental rights to be further eroded, I am not ready for my healthcare to become the business of the government, and I am definitely not ready for more terrorist attacks on American soil.
Chris, if a candidate doesn’t even know what a person is, despite the clear and ancient teachings of his own church on the subject, what makes you think you can trust him on those other issues?
I’m absolutely willing to have a term by a Democrat if the Republicans float a pro-death candidate out there. First of all, the pro-lifers will be more united than ever against them, rather than pussyfooting around because the President is from “our” party and not saying what we really should.
Secondly, as utterly misguided as many Democrats are about how to help people, many of them honestly seem to WANT to, while many Republicans seem to mainly want to help those already rich line their wallets. Social Justice is NOT an optional Catholic guideline, you know. If both candidates are unacceptable on life issues, I’d rather see the unacceptable one that will do more good for the poor otherwise get in.
If both candidates are unacceptable on life issues, I’d rather see the unacceptable one that will do more good for the poor otherwise get in.
That’s more or less the argument Catholic Democrats have made about every pro-abortion candidate their party has put up since Jimmy Carter.
Social Justice is NOT an optional Catholic guideline, you know.
Yes. But the Dem’s platform has NO relation to Social Justice. The teaching of social justice is based on the inherent dignity of man as a creation of God. The Dem’s platform degrades man to cattle and advocates free hay and a barn for them–with the understanding that just like cattle, their population can be controlled with contraception and abortion when they get too inconvenient.
I don’t know. I think he might be an okay Republican candidate. I agree he seems sort of like a mix. He doesn’t seem to agree with either party to much- which of corse makes both parties not really thrilled about him, but on the other hand it could be nice to have a more bipartisan candidate. The country is so divided, after Bush. I think it would be nice to try to get religion out of politics.
I really don’t care who the Republicans have for their candidate, honestly. As long as it’s not Brownback. >.
Scott,
I am a democrat, and I don’t think your a cow- or any sort of cattle for that matter. I see you as a human… Unless your a well trained monkey sitting on the other side of the internet, who has learned how to type. O.o
I agree, Amy. I would much rather see a superficially compromising bipartisan candidate like Obama than a good, Catholic, pro-life Brownback.
Bi-partisan? Rudy not divisive? Did you pay attention to the man’s 8 years as Mayor of New York City? Being “bi-partisan” didn’t stop the Dems, especially minorities, from hating Rudy’s guts. And it didn’t stop the media from constantly attacking him.
After violent police incidents involving Abner Louima, Amadou Diallo, Patrick Dorismond, et al, as well as the very public and very ugly break-up of his marriage as a result of Rudy’s adultery, Rudy was on his way to becoming a semi-disgraced former Mayor, until, perversely, 9/11 saved his reputation.
If you’re looking for someone to “heal the divisions” in this country, Rudy Giuliani ain’t your man.
Chris,
We probably should let the Dems win and show the Republicans that they can’t just throw characterless candidates at us. I don’t want another Souter on the Supreme Court.
The 2008 elections, as Alan Keyes says, is the most important election ever for America. This election will decide if we will be pro-life or pro-death. Having two pro-death candidates doesn’t bode well for America.
Amy,
You seem to think we live in the Weimer Republic.
Tito
I am a democrat, and I don’t think your a cow- or any sort of cattle for that matter. I see you as a human… Unless your a well trained monkey sitting on the other side of the internet, who has learned how to type. O.o
My larger point of course is that the Dem do not equal the party of social justice vs. the Naugthy Party of Selfishness. Not that I am a big fan of the Republicans to begin with.
Anderson,
I don’t love Giuliani, by any means. I beleive, that if I HAD to choose a republican canidate, I’d choose him. He’s a republican, and yet he isn’t annoyingly conservative (like Brownback) and he wouldn’t polarize the U.S. nearly as bad as Brownback. I still would prefer Clinton.
Andy,
I would love Obama, if it wasn’t for one thing. He’s against Same Sex Marriage, which I can’t support a canidate that’s against equal rights for all Americans.
Scott,
Social Justice? I think were fairly just. Are you just refering to the abortion issue or is their somthing at a larger scale you beleive were unjust about?
There’s no possibility that this rage towards Rudy isn’t anger caused by Rudy’s locking up of Catholic terrorists back in the 80s, is there?
Yeah, you got us pegged. We all just love the mob.
Hoodlum, your understanding of the judicial system is as great as your medieval scholarship.
Um, no. Especially since I don’t know what cases you might be referring to.
There you have it: Rudy has been called an “okay Republican candidate” by a woman who can’t support Obama because he’s not liberal enough for her. After that, what are we all sitting around for? We have to go out and campaign for Rudy post-haste!
Jay, who said anything about the mob?
Missjean, ignorance of the concept of historiography aside, do you even know what I am talking about?
I don’t know about you, but I’m a Catholic first, and a Republican second. We Catholics need to realize that we are 20% of this country, and could stop abortion overnight if we united on the one issue which truly matters; four thousand human beings are brutally murdered in our backyard every single day.
Nothing Hitler ever did for Germany matters to us now because we know he murdered millions. Too many of us have stood idly by as 42 million of our fellow citizens have been slaughtered in the modern death camp; the women’s health center.
Senator Brownback has just polled third place, only three points behind Rudy and Romney in 2 straw polls this week. Let’s lose these COD(Culture of Death) politicians before we’re left with no choice.
All we are saying, Is Give Peas A Chance! hee hee
“Jay, who said anything about the mob?”
Then perhaps you’d like to enlighten us as to who these “Catholic terrorists” are that Rudy put behind bars. I’d like to know exactly just whose incarceration is the apparent cause of my animosity toward Rudy.
There isn’t a one of these stuffed shirts (and I guess blouse now) who I could bring myself to vote for. Even the likes of Brownback only seem palable because they’re not as morally offensive as the rest. The world calls for a rise in statesmen, unfortunately all we have are politicians. What’s the difference you ask? A statesman is a public servant of liguistic capability and moral clarity who truly is seeking the good of those he serves. A statesman is able to profoundly move and have the action to back up his or her words. What we have are politicians: shapeshifting opportunist whose only master is their own want for power. They will say anything to build a base of a certain subset, use scorched earth tatics to level their opponents, and are almsot incapable of saying anything deeper than a 5 second soundbite. I do not trust any of these yahoos…but it’ll be all we have to choose from.
They’ll say they want to improve education…again. Yet for every presidential election cycle where this has been touted, education has actually gotten worse. They say they’ll want to improve healthcare…again. Yet, the few forays they have had in healthcare have been substandard and fraught with bueracratic waste (they leveled our schools and good gravy we want to give them healthcare????) It will be the same litany they have trotted out like used clunkers for years, and we will be not so better off than we are now.
I would like to hear, just once, a candidate embrace personal responsibility in governance…both personally and as his/her message. This nation has become a nation of narcissistic, whining, self-entitled, helpless nitwits who are looking for someone to model the easy way and to show us to personally obfuscate for our own sorry behavior (wasn’t Bill Clinton the poster boy for that?) But we’re stuck with Auntie Hillary and the mental dwarves. God help our REpublic!
I will vote for the candidate that opposes abortion. If more than one candidate opposes abortion (equally), I will then look at other issues; first life issues, then other issues.
If the only candidate that would do anything to oppose abortion happens to be a hypocrite who “personally supports it,” sadly, that would be the only moral choice (not that I think Mr. Giuliani would do anything to oppose abortion).
The slaughter of over 40 million infants must be priority number one. There is no other issue that even comes close. The candidate that would do the most to stop this slaughter is the candidate for whom I will vote.
Country Pastor: Statesmen would be nice, but I don’t think we’re going to get any this election. I’m sure they exist, but we won’t find them in the political arena. They are busy raising families and such, and have not the money, contacts or clout to run for any office, certainly not President of these here United States of America.
So, why don’t we worry about issues for now? First abortion, of course. Perhaps, if we’re lucky, we can bag a couple other issues along with it, like euthanasia, gay marriage, terror and taxes.
In the meantime, we can be leaven in society, through witness, and much prayer and fasting. That is what will, with God’s help, eventually give us statesmen. Maybe even faithful Catholic statesmen.
St. Michael, defend us in battle!
Our Lady of Guadalupe, save the unborn!
All ye Saints and Angels of Heaven, pray for us!
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us!
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, convert the hearts of sinners!
COME, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful and enkindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love.
Send forth Thy Spirit and they shall be created
And Thou shalt renew the face of the earth.
In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
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