Update on Fr. Mary Stone

Thud. This is sad. You are right that we should pray, Jeff. I will pray for Fr Stone tonight during Adoration...

Jeff:

It is unfair for you to characterize his occuaptions in this way. According to the website, his primary business is one coordinating the provision of home health care. That is not "sad." It is probably a worthy outlet for his talents.

I shall pray for him, I was just thinking of him not to long ago. It's strange to hear his birth name which I assume is David vs. Francis Mary.

His website advertises home health care, motivational speaking, and ... the new age drink Zrii.

All of these things are supposed to "lift up" and "revitalize," which is the company's mission.

I don't think pointing out the new age drink is unfair at all. It's part of what he's selling.

It's not unfair to point out the drink he's peddling. It's unfair to characterize his activities as centered on that, when in fact I suspect his work - the home health care - takes up most of is time and is probably a very worthy business.

A post on this could say, "It is sad that Father Francis Mary Stone has left active priestly ministry, but part of what he is doing now involves a business providing home health care. Let's pray for David Stone and his endeavors, and that he stays close to Christ."

But snarking and judging and making wry comments at a fellow sinner's expense is so much more fun and gets so many more hits, doesn't it?

Are you sure this is real?

I hope we won't be reading about Fr. Francis Mary on any other blog. This is really sad. He needs our prayers not our discussions.

"It is sad that Fr left active priestly ministry, but part of what he is doing now involves a business providing home health care."

But? As in, because Fr. continues to contribute to society in meaningful ways, it diminishes the badness of his leaving the priesthood?

Part of what he is doing is selling a new age drink. And using the "life on the rock" slogan to promote it.

The website mentions he was the host of the "then popular" EWTN show. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that comes off like: "popular when I hosted it. It's nothing now, without me." He obviously feels comfortable using the slogan for his own unrelated ventures.

I'm praying that Fr. comes to his senses, drops this stuff and returns to the vocation to which God has definitively called him.

His was one of the EWTN shows which got me into RCIA several years ago. I love the dear man. The whole thing is so disappointing. May God bless him.

I just can't believe he's using the slogan of the show. It seems like a dig to me.

Not to be rude but... this is not really suprising. The show The Rock, at least in my experience, was somewhat "off." I think it displayed an epidemic of a quality that many of our priest lack. Many priest nowadays just don't come across as men. They may be intelligent, devout, etc... but they lack the "father" aspect of the priesthood. I would liken them more to the stereotypical geek/accountant rather than the carpenter/blue collar worker. I think this is why it is so hard for many young men to relate to their pastor; I know that a very minor few do but they usually are the stereotypical "acoustical guitar" type. This was my experience in the seminary, I could not relate to any of my formators. I think that the main reason that some priest leave the priesthood is because they cannot stand the lack of masculinity in the priest culture. They want to be men, masculine men, but they are limited by the "lets try to cook a fancy Italian dinner like we had in Rome oh wasn't Rome just so great... I don't do yard work lets hire someone to do that... lets watch the LOTR's for the millionth time..." type of social setting that exist. Now I know that there are good priest that act like men. But there definitely is a pampered priest culture that exist- heck its probably what your gutless bishop is so scarred of losing, that and his semi-elitist social life- if he actually speeks out against sin.
To get to the point- some priest (and most men in general) need to be surrounded by other real men. They need to be masculine. But when you swear that there is a high concentration of estrogen in the water (as was my experience in the seminary) it can drive you nuts and even drive you to question and rationalize your faith- just so that you can find sanity again- an escape. Who knows, mabey Fr. just wanted to play cards again and smoke a cigar. Mabey he wanted to drink a cheap beer that didn't have to be critiqued by the local beer nazi micro brewer. I really don't know his situation but I bet there is a correlation between priest dropping out of the priesthood and seminarians dropping out of the seminary: a castrated culture.

Concupiscence darkens the intellect indeed.

Not sure if you noticed, Jeff, but he says he's going to have a podcast on Oct. 15.

http://www.davestoneinc.com/speaking.htm

First of all, let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt. We don't know the whole story, and we don't know what God asked of him.

Second, if he was released from his vows in the standard way and laicized, then he has a perfect right to live a lay life. Even if he were just on a temporary break while still discerning, he also has a right to hold a job and live.

Third, if you think his website is tacky, why not hire him a web designer or write him some better copy?

Fourth, if you want to be concerned about Zrii, don't be concerned about it being endorsed by some stupid New Age guy. Be concerned about the fact that the manufacturers portray the juice as being mostly herbal and medicinal, when really it's mostly normal old apple and pear juice with some pomegranate thrown in. Also, that being a distributor is apparently even less fun than Amway.

I wish him the best, but it looks like the enterprise of helping the elderly is the one most likely to do well. The Zrii distribution thing looks more like a money-taker than a money giver.

Hey Hey, masculine doesn't mean sititng around on the couch having farting contests and belching real loud. Gee.

I agree with "hey hey." It is absolutely right about a non-existing masculine priesthood. Society in general has done much to de-masculate the men not only in our country but all over. No thanks to the evil of homosexuality which has found its way into so many, and also the weak men who cowtow to women seeking power and who continue to proudly and at times vehemently put themselves before any man, and most sadly before God. We all need to pray for each other and the whole world; God has been more than offended by His people.

OK, father Stone had a vocation (the priesthood) then he met a cute piece of tail and "needed time to discern" his vocation, the priesthood. Next he left the priesthood and hooked up with said piece of tail.

So, I have a vocation (husband and father) but if I see a younger, firmer opportunity, I am told that I cannot dump my vocation and pursue said opportunity.

Why are some vocations more binding than others?

Note to wife: the above situation is PURELY hypothetical.

Though it is sad to see a priest leave the priesthood for any reason, I have to say that searching for real manhood is a quest of mine and I can imagine it being a strong enough force to get oneself laicized.

I always defend morally structured home-based businesses, even network marketing, and since I too run a home-based business, maybe there is a connection between searching for manhood and starting a business. I have a strong desire to directly support my family through my own efforts, instead of being dependent on a corporation to keep me employed and pay me a family wage.

Although I don't know about Zrii in particular, in general businesses of this type have more support and lower start-up costs than standard businesses so there is much to be said for them. Even if they fail, like most start-ups, the financial loss is smaller than a normal franchise by a factor of 100.

Carbon:

1) The analogy fails, most stupendously because there are Roman Catholic married priests, both converts and in the Eastern Rite. Obviously vocation to the priesthood is not synonymous with celibacy in the teaching and practice of the Catholic Church.

2) I'd invite you to ask any priest y about whether they define their vocation as being "married" to the Church. Very few do. That is not what they are taught in seminary, and never have been. Go to the aforementioned Father Joe's blog. He ends with wishing David Stone well.

Mark,

Carbon's analogy is most appropriate. Just as Carbon made vows of fidelity to his wife, forsaking all others, Fr. Stone made vows of celibacy forsaking marriage.

Both vows were made before God.

None of this is simply "okay."

Is this the standard to which my future wife, or myself, will be held to in honouring our vows? That is, if it feels good, keep them, but if not, then she or I could split? Hey, whatever works for you. Thou shalt not judge blah blah blah...

There are still some Catholics who believe vows mean something. I guess you're not one of them.

But Mark, whatever rite you are in, you cannot marry once you become a priest. Even the Orthodox follow this. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that Dave Stone can ditch his vows that he took as a priest but I cannot ditch the ones I took at my wedding. Both are sacraments. Both are vocations. In fact, everyone seems to be stressing lately how being married is a vocation, just like the priesthood.

I sometimes think that priests look around at us married guys and think "If I was just married, I wouldn't be so sexually frustrated." I got news for ya, a couple who has been married 15 years, with 5 kids and practicing NFP don't "get busy" very much at all. It seems all the "green" nights are taken up with sick kids and parish meetings. Sexually frustrated? Get in line!

Fortunately, it's not about me, it's about Him ; even if you're married. So my advice to all priests thinking about chucking their vows to find fulfillment is: Stop crying in your beer and do your damn job!

hey hey, did you go to my seminary. Your description was brilliant and sadly accurate. While orthodox it tolerated the culture we both know all too well.

Carbon, have you been reading my blog? While I don't have 15 years or 5 kids under my belt (no pun intended) I feel the same as you do - solemn vows are solemn vows. Stone broke one set to get a new set. Both are seen as equal by the Church in terms of their binding-ness.

One thing to note - he has added a memo on his site explaining how excite he is about this venture and about how he now has a child to provide for, etc. Now it's just shy of 12 months since he left EWTN broadcasts...it makes me wonder how quick he got married and got busy...or if he married that original widow and has taken her kid(s) as his own, which would be honorable if he didn't have to break another sacramental vow to do it.

If other Catholic blogs are any indication, I'm supposed to be extremely angry at the former Father, now Mister Stone. But in all honesty, I have a hard time feeling anything other than pity for him.

Chris,

Your blog: Bingo.

Carbon

Chris:

His email is on his site. Why don't you write him and ask him and share your opinions of him wih him directly? Do you have the courage to do that, or does your courage only take you as far as writing lengthy blog posts about the personal life of someone you don't know?

He strikes me as very accessible. He might just answer your question. Report back to us when you do this, why don't you?

The former "Father Francis Mary" always rubbed me the wrong way. He seemed very much conflicted, and his anger was always coming to the surface. It's good that he's moved on, and living a healthier life. Most of the priests on EWTN seem troubled in one way or the other (although I've always liked Father Joseph, who seems like a genuinely sincere, holy and gentle man). I'd always thought that "Father Francis" (David) had a fairly pronounced gay affect (like Fr. Anthony, but not as feminine) so I was surprised that the cover story included a woman . . . but I guess that's looking about right. I guess I was reading self-loathing into the OTR interviews of anti-gay "personalities."

How nice that the Holy Spirit gave you the gift of telepathy as well as reading hearts. I suggest that you start by scanning your own.

Maureen,

Who is your comment addressed to?

Jeff, I am guessing that it was for me, although I hold to my insights and observations. Of course even a trained counselor with lots of experience can be wrong, but I'm not banking on ESP just what I seen and hear. It's not a surprise to me that "Father Francis'" religious demagoguery was a cover-up for something . . . I always assumed it to be something sexual due to the teeth-gritting joylessness he manifested in all aspects of his preaching/presiding and talk-show hosting - also his overuse of the relgious habit (including during recreation) led me to believe that he was hiding something. He's probably healthier and happier now, and I suspect in less of a position to harm others. Al

This is the first I've heard of this story. I didn't watch the show much (frankly I found it a little boring, but that probably says more about me and my goldfish-like attention span, than the show itself). It's always discouraging when a priest leaves his post, sanctioned/properly released or otherwise. Our parish has gone through something similar recently. But I'm sure it's always even more difficult for the priest himself than on the rest of us, whether it was his "fault" or not. So, my prayers are with Mr. Stone today.

-I got news for ya, a couple who has been married 15 years, with 5 kids and practicing NFP don't "get busy" very much at all. It seems all the "green" nights are taken up with sick kids and parish meetings. Sexually frustrated? Get in line!-

11 years.

4 kids

same complaint

Rob, I'm intrigued by your email, are you saying that your partner is forcing you to do NFP against your will? I'm guessing NFP is working for couples who both are desirous of the practice, but it probably does not work well when only one couple seeks that level . . . I'm guessing that couples who don't agree on NFP shouldn't do it, and it they need to, they can work through their questions with a competent priest in the office or the confessional. Maybe after 15 years there's a also a lot of differences in the desire for intimacy? I feel for you, man!

What I reacted to as "sad" was not the drink. That's the better part. It's closer to tent-making. :) What is sad is the sort of rent-a-priest-ness of the home health care. It is so far from the dignity of the priest, somehow, to have to advertise and sell what he could once give freely.
It is also sad that nuns "in good standing" have to charge for spiritual direction in order to survive...
Somehow, other sorts of labor are humbling but the personal sale of ministry by priests and nuns is humiliating. Donations collected by the Church to support it, its ministry, and its priests and nuns always struck me as a right thing, despite the obnoxious complaints of many who are served by the Church. Actual "fee for service", even when said fee can be waived, is sooo...secular.
There can be dignity in poverty. Can there be dignity in private "ministry" by an ordained priest for a fee?

I posted the news about Dave Stone on my blog, but it is leaving me increasingly uneasy. There are HELP DAVE Paypal links all over the site. He says that he does not charge for talks but there is a small deposit that would be forfeit. His affiliation with the Zrii drink seems quite strange and no one person could give all the home care he advertises. However, it might all pull the heartstrings. There is little real information about him on the site and for all we know the picture might be altered or just a random shot someone took at a picnic. If the site was real, would there not be more official exposure on other websites? But there is nothing except Blog references. Could it be a fake site, a clever scam to prey on people who miss him and regularly pray for him? I hate to be so suspicious, but I have to tell people to BEWARE! Even the comment that first alerted me to the site was anonymous. There are too many questions for me. Note that he has incorporated the name DAVE STONE. If it is a business name, then anyone could cash in on it from behind the scenes. I also find it hard to believe that this priest would beg in this way and that he would deliberately use a modified version of the title from his EWTN program, LIFE ON THE ROCK. He would be commercializing on something which should be left alone. Again, I am sorry, but I am not sure this is Father at all.

When I read hey hey's comments, I just shook my head in agreement. Now, to answer another comment, no...being masculine doesn't mean breaking wind on the couch while watching wrestling...but it does mean keeping your word, even when it is inconvenient.

But hey hey is right, most of my brethern look like they belong in the 'before' picture of a weight watcher's commercial...many are soft, effeminate, and far too consumed with worldly things. Everytime I see them go on about lacey vestments, antiques, and frilly things I want to scream. In the seminary I heard the awful phrase "these hands were meant for chalices not calluses". I see them sashay around without a trace of masculinity. They eschew labor of any sort and often pride themselves on how pampered they can be. Somehow the life of cardinal virtue got soften enough to accommodate an elitist lifestyle. No wonder we can't get young men interested in pursuing God's call to priesthood!!

I think that the answer lies in more men, both ordained and those who should be thinking about it, in nurturing a virtuous and simple life of committed self-giving. THe problem with Fr. mary Francis (and I could be wrong) is that there needs to be a unity of virtue, both external and internal...a grasping of a integrated spirituality that reflects a mental, spiritual, and physical fortitude that by its nature cannot help but draw others. It is devoid of wrath and self-aggrandizing often assocaited with being male in this country. Yet it is sturdy, committed, prudent, temperate, and just. It says what needs to be said in a way that opens the door to conversion; it doesn't slink behind political correctness or apologize for having depth.

My advice to hey hey and others in the same I gave to a deacon who was wondering why he should stay when the milquetoast have rule of the day...when the strong abandon ship the ship in commandered by the cowardly. No messiah complex...just saying that it is hard..awful hard...but for the sake of the Kingdom and the flock...it is very necessary we don't bolt.

BTW, any man looking for good book on this (aside of Scripture of course) I would recommend Dr Kevin Vost "Fit for Eternal Life: A Christian Approach (Catholic actually) to working out, eating right, and building the virtues in your soul" (Sophia Press) It is in my current spiritual reading pile of books being read right n ow.

Holy cow hey hey and fr bp this is an interesting string but frankly the imposition of celibacy on the diocesan presbyterate needs to be taken into consideration as a reason for entitlement, narcissism and the club culture among our ranks. But this string started with David Stone ("Father Francis"), and I think we are getting a bit off track. It's hard to know what's going on with Dave, but that website sure does seem authentic because it's for sure his voice on the homepage and I don't know how you would forge that. The way he left and the quirky website begging for funds seems (to me anyway) to validate what I've been thinking for several years: that he was a fake, as is the whole EWTN network. Particulary now at election time it's appearing more and more that the network is a cover for the RNC. The Friday evening faux-news show is a parade of shills for the RNC, and the Catholic League guy (the guy who shouts all the time) seems to be funded by the Heritage Foundation, an offshoot of Dobson's group. Anyway, I digress . . . I always thought that Stone was a fake, and this new developement seems to confirm that feeling.

Ever wonder at the crowd of people who "always knew" after the fact?

Joanne, if you read my comments, I said that I suspected something was wrong, but I admitted that I did not know exactly what, for example I would have guessed his problem was gay-related and not heterosexual, so it seems that I was wrong on that which is something that I already admitted. Al

Al, you're kidding, right? Lifting celibacy will alleviate the entitlement and narcissism? Oh, I see, there are no married folks who are such, right? If these clerics poured themselves into the service of their parishioners and in the name of Christ, that would go a lot further. Then again, if married persons poured themselves more into the needs of their spouses and children, the divorce rates would plummet as well. Your entry belies little more than an a leftist basher who throws the baby out with the bathwater. EWTN has a lot of good things on as well.

Hi, Fr Bp. Just came back from a clergy dinner on the westside and was thinking yeah, I think it does work for some guys, but I think it works better for the order guys than the diocesan guys. You bet, celibacy works a lot of the time . . . not as much for diocesean guys as for the Bene's and the other order guys. I agree too there seem to be some solid guys on EWTN . . . I love Fr. Joseph, he seems great.

Just listened to Dave Stone’s first podcast. This answers a lot of questions! Here is the link:

“http://www.davestoneinc.com/podcasts/DSI_Podcast_101508a.mp3″

This is ridiculous. I'm glad he's taking responsibility for his new wife and child, but he is still a priest, and someone who caused scandal to many young, impressionable souls. God can and will forgive him, but a little silence, modesty, and penance is in order, not profiteering! Surely he can find work in the private sector.