$65 Baptism?

Hmm... could that mean surrounding costs - the baptismal gown, any celebration afterward?

I think (hope) that the $65.00 would be for the surrounding costs: baptismal gown and celebration. I couldn't imagine a baptism costing anything, never mind $65.

...so skip the white gown and party afterwards. Seriously. It's that important to get the baby baptized.

My filpina wife said she has no idea what a "private baptism" is. Her's was public. I told her to ask her mother. Of course, people shouldn't think of the gown as a necessity, if that is what the money is spent on. But judging from how things went with my weddings, the cultural aspects of the ceremony are so important, you'd think that God Himself had decreed them.

NOTE: wedding should have been singular ;-)

I don't know why anyone is shocked. The Church charges for her sacraments all the time. You gotta ciugh up several hundred for a marriage, and I believe a couple hundred for a baptism too. Of course, they call it a "stipend', but these are not mere "recommended donations". You're told you HAVE to pay this. The fee might be a waved for a poor person, but quite frankly it shouldn't be there at all. It should be advertised as a recommended donation, nothing more.

The same goes for CCD education. Most parishes charge hundreds of dollars to educate children in the faith. At least down here in South Florida. And to top it out, they're barely even being taught Catholicism . . .

I have heard of baptisms being held off because the parents couldn't yet afford the BIG party afterwards (is that a new "must-have" or one from a particular culture?) They talk about "THE CAKE" with more reverence than I hear them talk about the Eucharist or any of the sacraments.
Ah, well, in Jesus' time it was THE WINE, wasn't it? So I guess THE CAKE and other customs are deserving of some respect, too. But I would think that because of the nature of Baptism, customs and fees would be waived rather than have the child wait too long.
As for the private baptism, that came up in "Romero" didn't it? I wonder if some cultures think the private baptism is more effective, or something, beyond feeling more special.

Dear Eric,

The Church does not charge for the Sacraments per se. I have never been charged for Eucharist or Reconciliation. What the fees offset include items like climate control for the building (HVAC), the fees for the music minister to come in and play, electricity for the organ, etc.

Private Baptisms, as opposed to public Baptisms, occur by arrangement and often outside the Sunday Mass. Many parishes are moving to public Baptisms for many reasons. First, the Sacraments are PUBLIC celebrations. Second, it does save on utilities. Now, if only more people had public marriages!

(Confession, although not directly public, can be done in a common celebration.)

That's not true.... Baptism in the Philippines is free.... Mark Jimenez is just another politico trying to buy votes....

I don't know why anyone is shocked. The Church charges for her sacraments all the time.

Whaa? Have I committed some faux pas over the years? I've never "paid for" a baptism for any of my 7 children, whether they were private ceremonies or with a group of other kiddies. What we do is ask the priest if he would like to come to the party afterwards, and he says no. No one ever mentioned anything about a stipend. Now I feel bad.

But really, if people are expected to pay for a baptism and the church really refuses to do it for free, parents can always baptize their own children. You're not even supposed to use holy water.

Most parishes in the Philippines have a day, usually Sundays, where all Baptisms are performed. The "private" part could mean that the Baptism in question wasn't one of the scheduled ones. And yes, there are usually fees for those "private" ones. The fees are either for the priest's stipend or for the upkeep of the parish. The scheduled ones are usually free.

As for Mark Jimenez, one of his sons went on air a few weeks ago saying that his father had history of mental illness. It could explain a lot of things about the guy. On the other hand, Jimenez claims to have had a mystical experience but his actions in prompted by that experience, ironically in my humble judgment, don't seem to confirm the authenticity of the supposed divine origins of that experience.

Eric G., I am from South Florida. I recently came into the Church on 4/7/07. I didn't pay for anything. Also, we went to St. Mary's for the Rite of Election on a bus, I didn't pay anything.

But really, if people are expected to pay for a baptism and the church really refuses to do it for free, parents can always baptize their own children. You're not even supposed to use holy water.

Simcha, I'm not too sure about that. If you are asked to pay some kind of stipend (This is the first time I'm ever hearing of this) and you can not afford it, I doubt the Church will force you into paying it. You should still be able to have your baptism done by the Church.

Perhaps I shouldn't have made a sweeping claim as to say that the practice I said above is true throughout the Philippines. Policies and practices change from diocese to diocese. My experience about Baptism is substantially true for the Archdiocese of Manila and the adjoining dioceses which were formerly part of the territory of the Archdiocese.

One of the effects of poor catechesis in our country is that many people tend to see weddings and baptisms as social events rather than sacraments. They give more importance to the celebrations afterwards than the sacraments themselves. We have a "fiesta" culture where people -- even those who aren't very wealthy -- spend their last farthings for celebrations. It's not uncommon to encounter people who choose civil weddings or non-Catholic weddings because they think that Catholic weddings HAVE to be expensive.

-The Church charges for her sacraments all the time.-

Baloney. I got marrried for free. I gave the deacon $100 later, but it was not necessary for the sacrament.

Whaa? Have I committed some faux pas over the years? I've never "paid for" a baptism for any of my 7 children, whether they were private ceremonies or with a group of other kiddies.

None of the nine baptisms in my family involved any money exchanging hands either. Furthermore, I've never *heard* of this in all the many, many, many complaints people've made about their experience with the Church. Eric, if there's abuse going on locally, it sounds like you should expose it, since it's definitely not the norm.

I have to scratch my head and shake it at the same time -- which is a feat.

My eldest was baptized in Manila. Fees were NOT required, but donations are always welcome. I think I gave 50 pesos. It was a public baptism, several on the same day/hour, baptized one by one by the priest (who happened to be American).

I was also married in Manila, same Church, too (Malate Church). I think in this one there was a fee, but I can't remember how much, which probably means that it wasn't very significant (my wife and I paid for the wedding ourselves, and we're working class folks, so I would have remembered).

In the Philippines, the cost of these things is generally with the banquet afterwards. Whether it's a baptism or a wedding. It is quite common for couples not to get married because the wedding banquet demands are too high, not the wedding itself.

In any case, private baptism would be an exception. We have so many babies that they wouldn't be able to accommodate so many private ones! :-P

Nothing in today's (24 August 2007) Philippine Daily Inquirer, perhaps the most widely-read daily, on this. The report is very vague. When and where did this alleged 'baptism' take place? Did all the assembled parents, like the one quoted, baptise their own children? Having lived in the Philippines most of the time since 1971 I can't imagine a parent doing this. Unfortunately, some parents do postpone baptisms until they can have a 'proper' celebration at home. The same, as some have pointed out, goes for weddings.

I'm not working in a parish but in the cathedral here in Bacolod City the sponsors (witnesses) usually offer Pesos 150, around $3. It is the custom for poor people to invite less poor people to be sponsors. On occasions such as fiestas there are usually many baptisms as the fiesta meal also serves as the meal for the baptism. And the idea of having a celebration after a baptism is, in itself, right and proper.

As an editor I wouldn't accept this report, even if it includes the name 'Reuters'.

Fr Seán Coyle
Bacolod City, Philippines

Unfortunately there are too many "fees" associated with the sacraments, at least where I am in the U.S. I hate this.

Yes, I know there are costs such as the books to prepare the children for First Communion and the organist, flowers, etc.

But this ought to be CLEARLY a voluntary donation. I was godmother to a child once and the mother was frantic that I get the money to the priest before the baptism because "It costs $45 to get the child baptized!"

I told her the baptism cost nothing, but I read the Church bulletin and their "donation of $45 dollars for baptism" sure sounded like "if you don't cough it up, go baptize the kid yourself"

Mass stipends irritate me the same way. There is too often confusion.

I also suspect the parishes would get larger donations if they didn't go after them (as Mother Theresa did- always had enough, never did any fundraising).

While technically it may not cost anything for a sacrament, too often it seems that way to the point of scandal.

"And the idea of having a celebration after a baptism is, in itself, right and proper."
Surely it is good to celebrate after the sacrament, but we celebrate because of the importance of the Baptism. What worries me is when the party is exalted above what is being celebrated. And sometimes a "poor" party is more meaningful than a huge banquet hosted by stressed people who can't afford what they're doing.
Maybe we would do well to remember and spread the example of The Blessed Mother and Joseph at the Presentation of Jesus. There is a humble example to be followed for those who are poor. They gave according to their means AND according to custom.
As for performing your own baptism, isn't that reserved for emergencies? If one parish rejects you, another parish or priest can usually be found.

I believe I paid $50 to rent the chapel for our Convalidation. I also made the priest a chasuble, but this was entirely voluntary. My two children and I were all baptized for free, and my third will be baptized for free also. My son's First Communion also did not have any additional fees attached, just the normal $25 fee for Religious Education. It was my understanding that the Church COULD NOT charge for sacraments. Perhaps there are other types of abuses around that are not being investigated!!

Monica, did you approach the priest afterward and ask why the donation mentioned in the bulletin came across as extortion? It's usually the office staff who put the announcements in the bulletin, and they often use the same wording over and over. If it's coming across as fees, then that's not right. Have people in your parish spoken up about the supposed "fees" that are being put forth in your area? If not, how could you organize a meeting to get people to discuss the problem?

No one in my family has ever paid outright for a wedding, a baptism, or a funeral Mass. My parents and several other relatives rented the church basement and hired the Ladies Sodality to cook for parties, but that was it.

In Mexico, there is a charge for sacraments and one is expected to pay it. The churches are owned by the government, therefore nobody tithes--but they DO dole out money for sacraments.

All of my nine children were baptized without any fee ever being asked. However the godfather of one child felt it was customary to give the priest a donation?gift?stipend? and tried to give him 50 bucks. The priest refused it. The godfather then went out and put it in the priest's car without his knowledge. Apparently he only found it later. So he took it and bought me a large beautiful icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help,(he was a Redemptorist) which he brought to my house the next day.

Far from being charged a fee, we couldn't even get one accepted!
Susan Peterson

Suzanne,
MOST churches in México are owned by the government, a carryover from history.
However, some churches, like the one in my village is not owned by the government. The land was donated by one of the oldest families in the community, the church was built with money and labor of local people, the upkeep and utilities are all communal, and members of the community who live in the US take up a collection each year as well. Each week a different family is responsible for cleaning inside and outside the church. The family that donated the land still pays the nominal tax each year, about $5US.
I have heard that other churches have also been built by private subscription.
I've never heard of any fees being exacted for any sacrament, but the priest will accept small donations if offered, for weddings and funerals.
It would be unthinkable to not invite el padre to dinner on the many special occasions.

I work as a parish secretary. There are no fees charged for the sacrament of Baptism in our diocese (MONTREAL). Donations are most welcome and families often give quite generously. However this is always done at the discretion of the family. Fees are charged for other "services" e.g. marriages and funerals, but again no one would ever be denied a sacrament or sevice because of their financial situation.

My RCIA classes were free.

DH and my pre-wedding classes were 75$. (We didn't question the fee, just payed it.)

Our wedding was free but we gave the church 100$. The pianist (and chior director of the parish) charged 100$ for piano playing, period.

Our son's (public) christening was free and we were never asked to give any amount of money, but we donated some (don't remember the amount). This was to cover the baptismal candle and white garmet costs.