Disordered pins

He is right in the order of depravity for the sexual sins. Homosexuality is one of the few sins in the law labeled as "an abomination" and there is far less spoken against beastiality than against homosexuality. Maybe we should have a pin to show our "support" for those who commit beastiality as well. You're right, homosexuals are the only group anyone would ever consider doing something like this for. Its a shame.

The idea seems good - yes we do need to reach out to gays & lesbians (and not in a condemning way). But their sins must not be condoned and we musn't give the impression that the Church is.

Its this kind of degenerate behavior by some authorities in the Church that is going to keep faithful Protestants from ever giving the Church a second glance.

I remember the first time I realized that the rainbow had been taken over by the homosexual agenda. My sis and I were in Toronto and we kept seeing rainbow Canadian flags. We thought it was for ethnic and racial diversity. We also wondered how we found such a cheap bed and breakfast until we wandered into a nearby piano bar and discovered we were in the Gay District.

Not to be technical, but psychology no longer views homosexuality as a disorder. Now, talking to invisible people, that is still a disorder.

Hoodlum,

Science isn't done by a vote.

In the mid-1970's, the Board of Trustees of the American Psychiatric Association (APA) voted to remove the diagnostic category of "Homosexuality" from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, generally known as DSM and now in its fourth edition.

The vote at the time was highly controversial and divisive, and was widely understood as being political. The protocols, or reasons for the proposal, made it clear at the time that the intention was to reduce stigma and discrimination, and that the vote was not intended to indicate any final scientific determination regarding homosexuality.

Unfortunately, as is often the case, what is done by one generation with the best of intentions to improve social relationships becomes interpreted by the next generation as representing a solidly-based scientific conclusion.

Following the American Psychiatric Association's move, a number of other professional mental health organizations also took various positions declaring in one way or another, their support for the notion that homosexuality was not a disease or disorder, and that homosexuals were normal and psychologically healthy.

Dr Spitzer who was a major figure in the original effort to de-list homosexuality from the DSM, now says he is willing to re-examine the data and has even concluded that some people who had identified themselves as homosexual before therapy had in fact become comfortably heterosexual during the course of long-term psychotherapy.

Psychology no longer considers it a disorder... true, but that decision was made on political grounds in the 1970's and is to be fair a gross misdeed done by the psychological community.

Psychologically, and logically a disorder is a symptom of an underlying problem, either due to physical or psychological trauma. I believe that most if not all homosexuals exhibit behavior as a result of sexual molestation and act out of reaction to the trauna.

To not call it a disorder, to say the behavior is normal is to do a great disservice to the sufferers of molestation. Do I have proof, none more than my general recollection of conversations with gay folks, others... also the radio show Love Line, Dr. Drew always asks "who abused you" when callers self identify as gay. Not "were you" but "who did?" If a psychiatrist asks this and 99% is correct, then this is a disorder caused by trauma. My two cents back at the hoodlum.

Mahoney's retirement cannot come soon enough.

I must be in the 1% because I'm SSA and was not molested. That said, possessing a homosexual orientation is not sinful, but acting out on it is intrinsically disordered. That doesn't make ME intrinsically disordered as a person; the behavior is. The group *Courage,* which helps those living with SSA to live in chastity, is God's work indeed.

I love the part about wearing the pin to "signal solidarity" -- puh-leeze!

It'll be a "signal," all right . . .

Jeff, it is true that science is often influenced by politics, after all, given that praying to Mr. Potato Head gets one sent to the loony bin, while praying to Jesus gets you elected.

But, given the large number of non-molested altar boys and others who are gay, and the prevelence of homosexuality among the animal kingdom, it is safe to say it is normal :)

Hoodlum,

By that logic if a women kills her mate after sex than it is normal because Black Widows do it. But even cases of animal homosexuality is not normal, it is something quite rare.

Hoodlum, if the pope cannot declare the world round, then scientists cannot declare acting on homosexual urges moral. And morality is the issue we are concerned about here, not whether some white-coats feel something is "normal" or "natural". (They are of course entitled to their opinions as unauthoritative as they may be.)

I would like to see more widespread support for organizations like Courage but it seems the dioceses that go for this rainbow pin and sash stuff are the same ones that are bent on keeping Courage out. Sad stuff.

Is this the same diocese that used legal chicanery to allow Catholic Charities to give children for adoption in homosexual households?

"I find that most children can barely survive having ONE mother."

I wrote them a very stern email to that diocese and got a very tepid response. End result is that Catholic Charities no longer gets donations from me.

What is this about Catholic Charities?

Yeah Jeff, but intimidating black widows has a victim- the man. If I was to turn gay, nobody would be harmed. See the difference- real harm verus make believe harm :)

Is that psychology view unanimous and biding at all? I had the impression that it deals only with the strictly mental and does not veer into the spiritual. And on another front, homosexual acts in animals cannot be used as analogues with that for humans because they are not sentient (no matter how much pet owners and groups like PETA want to imagine them), and don't have free will.

MLGC supports movements for homosexual and lesbian persons that are consonant with Church teaching,

Assuming this is true, I don't see the problem and I'd be happy to support them by buying a pin. Too many Catholics seem to interpret Church teaching as meaning GLBTs are more sinful than the rest of us and bash them accordingly. It's good to see an archdiocese standing up against that sort of misinterprevation of Church teaching.

1. What's the difference between a "Rainbow Fish" and a rainbow sash?
2. Rainbow Fish is a copyrighted cartoon character. Hopefully they will sic their lawyers on Mahony soon.
3. If Hoodlum's kid (God save us all) were to be trying to fit two (or more) pegs together instead of putting it in the round slot, would he call it an "alternative cognitive ability"?

JT, I agree with what you're saying, except that the rainbow symbol has been hijacked by a politicial and social movement that does not subscribe to Church teaching; rather, it thumbs its collective nose at the Holy Father & our Church. So while a well-meaning person such as yourself would wear a rainbow fish pin for the right reasons, the public statement of doing such leads others to the wrong conclusions I believe.

Jeron, God bless you! Several of my close friends are also involved in Courage. What a wonderful ministry!

Ah-ha, there's an idea. If Courage were to come up with a recognizable logo, i'd be happy to be pinned in solidarity in addition to offering prayer support.
The hi-jacked rainbow, though, has come to mean tolerance of same-sex relationships as being good, healthy and equal to complementary marital relations. And that does hurt someone, or actually generations of someones.

joanne, please join us in prayer anyway! having a *courage* logo ... good idea ... i'll have to look into that!

Jeron,
May the Lord, Jesus, bless all His beloved courageous ones abundantly. And thank you for your patience and forgiveness towards all who may never fully understand your struggles, but are growing in love as they try.

I have a friend who is gay. He came to me and expressed a desire to reenter the church. I sent him to a priest who heard his confession. I have just found out that that priest told him it was pretty much okay to continue with his lifestyle. I recently e-mailed him and tried to clear up some misconceptions but was informed that he had spoken to "many" catholics in good standing and priests who told him that I was wrong and judgmental. He is no longer speaking to me.

I love the idea of a pin representing "courage". I would wear one AND hand them out to anyone that wanted one. It would be such a clear and simple way to let gay people know that they are loved and supported without succumbing to the false notion that to support a gay "person" is not the same as supporting a gay "agenda". It would also let gay people know that while we oppose homosexual "behavior", we completely support homosexual "persons". It would open a door to discussions about church teaching with homosexuals who have no knowledge of the group courage. Let me know if you adopt such a pin.

MK

The thought occurs that if a marriage can be annulled, why not an ordination? If wrong intentions can nullify the blessing of a marriage, how much more an ordination undergone with no intent to celibacy, or even, more horribly, with the intention of overturning doctrine or the teachings of the Church?

Just a thought...

I too would wear a Courage pin.