Albigenses in Public Life
This has got to be the dumbest argument I have heard for starving Terri Schiavo to death and it was made by a woman who is both a Catholic and a Republican.
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- She's known for her no-nonsense tone, but when Sen. Nancy Argenziano took the floor after a week of closed-door negotiations over legislation meant to keep Terri Schiavo alive, she wept.
"I believe keeping someone from getting to heaven is the wrong thing to do," she said Friday, handkerchief in hand, as she explained why she couldn't vote to prolong the brain-damaged woman's life.[Source]
So by this view we should just kill everybody so that those who are going to Heaven will go immediately. That we should adopt the Marine Core's saying "Kill'em all, and let God sort'em out" in non-war situations. This sounds like a modern version of Albigensianism. They were dualist who believed that the body was evil. Some would keep from having Baptism and then after being Baptized would starve themselves to death so as to go free their souls from their bodies and to to to Heaven immediately. This Albigensianism view is ironically appropriate in this case. The Senator is just being somewhat consistent since she has previously said "I am opposed to government-compelled pregnancy" though she did vote for parents to be notified in their children want an abortion. With this view allowing abortion is alright so that the baby will go to Heaven sooner.
Update: I received a response when I wrote the Senator concerning her statement. You just got to love a reply in response to legislation prevent someone from being starved to death by saying perhaps that I need to read the Bible.
Your response has nothing to do with this case. Perhaps you need to read the bible.
Ecclesiastes 8:8a "no man has the authority to restrain the wind with the wind, or authority over the day of death
Philippians 21- For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain
23- for I am in a starit betwixt two, having a desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better
Quote from Billy Graham--..."But someitmes modern medical thecnology doesn't prolong life, it delays death. When that is the case, we may be actualy be trying to do something God has not willed.
I believe should God desire to keep a person alive, he is perfectly capable of doing so without the help of feeding tubes and or respirators. Thats true faith in my opinion. But it seems that you have no room for any body elses opinion. I respect those on the other sid eof this issue because they truly belive that it is the right thing to do. How can anyone ever not respect people for doing what they belive is right? Even when we disagree there is still respect. I truly believe, as does many religions in this country that it is wrong not to let some one get to heaven by keeping them alive this way. However, I have heard from my constituents and there weere far more people in my district who did not want me to vote for the amendment, then who did. Primarily for the resaon of them not wanting government in their most private issues. Have you read the amendment that I voted no on? Do you know it opened the door to allow "any interested party" intervene in a family's private issues such asthis one? Do you understand what that may actually do?
Lets say theres another girl named Janice, she is in the same state as Terry except she has no husband, no living will na dher mother is her guardian. She told her mother she did not want to be taken off feeding tubes, or she never told her mother otherwise. Her mother keeps her on the feeding tube and is takng care of her. There is no litigation. That amendment if passed would allow "any interested" party, lets say someone form the right to die with dignity organization, to intervene, challege the mother and could succeed in getting rid of the feeding tube. A perfect starnger could do they exact opposite of what was intended in that amendment. Not a good thing. I took the time to write to you even though you are not a constituent because this is such a very hard issue. You cannot think this has been easy.
There are many different opinions on this.
Known as 
"Kill 'Em All and Let God Sort 'Em Out.'
Good grief.
For another layer of irony, "Kill them all, God will know his own," was first attributed (falsely, we can add) to a papal legate advising a massacre of Albigensians, some of whom claimed to be Catholic, at Beziers in 1209.
I don't think, though, that this is what Rep. Argenziano's view leads to. If anything, it would be, "Kill the innocent and the good, and don't hurt the bad guys."
But then, getting elected to a state legislature doesn't prevent you from being an idiot.
By the Senator's reasoning arbotion is perfectly legitimate. Babies (born and unborn) obviously haven't done anything evil so we should just kill them and send them straight to heaven.
And 3rd parties already interfere in private lives anyway so what's the difference?
Jeff,
I'm sure you'll appreciate this item which I just blogged on.
From a Palm Beach Post article entitled "Schiavo Q & A":
How's that for objective journalism?!
Things like this remind me of the adage, "You just can't fix stupid."
Did you ask her if she was ready to volunteer to see if she is going to heaven?
Did you ask her if she was ready to volunteer to see if she is going to heaven?
Perhaps she'd answer that she can't go now because she's not done helping people with "getting to heaven." :::shudder:::*
*That was not meant sarcastically.
Stupid RINOs make little baby Jesus cry.
:_(
...and unleash his divine wrath!
I'm lucky I'm home alone right now. My grandmother might have been awfully concerned by the sudden deafening outburst of obscenities. Thanks, Jeff. :-P
She may in fact be quite right that the legislation would enable an outsider to compel the removal of the feeding tube, but that isn't because God doesn't want feeding tubes. It's because dumbass legislators, no matter how long they're at their work, don't seem to get any better at drafting a bill so that, once passed, it actually does what it's intended to do, and not the opposite. I can't say I have much confidence in the clarity of mind and precision of word of a legislator who gets up on the floor and sobs that she can't bear to keep someone from getting to Heaven. Furthermore, while I have a high regard for the late Billy Graham's personal moral character, a man who clung obstinately to both sola fide and sola scriptura can't be regarded as a capable autority for the guidance of Catholics.
From B Knotts' post:
Doctors who have witnessed the procedure in other patients call it a dignified death.
I wonder which doctors. Dr. Joseph Mengele and Dr. Jack Kevorkian?
The muddled thinking in that article is classic:
Doctors doubt whether she will feel pain, but Terri will grimace from pain that she isn't really experiencing. So they will give her medicine to relieve the pain and discomfort that she can't feel. It's all OK, because it's not the same pain we experience. "We" as in the fully human compared to the subhuman Terri? "Different", as in we no longer share in common human experiences? Usually there is no sign of change other than that of going from living to dead.
In spite of all the grimacing, moaning and apparent pain that she can't be feeling as her body literally shuts down, it's quite the dignified death.
It sure makes me feel better.
I had 2 strokes when I was 22. I could not talk, move, remember my name, and I was virtually useless and a burden on society. I was in a coma for over 2 1/2 weeks, and the "doctor gods" told my Mother that IF I ever came out of it, I would never walk again.
WELL, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING DOCTOR...I went back to college, then I went to USC, (no, I didn't graduate, because I had another stroke, but that's beside the point), and I walk, talk, and write just fine, no thanks to YOU.
Could I hear them in my coma? Yes. I just couldn't respond. Do you know how frustrating that is, especially when I love to talk??? I was trapped, but I decided that I was not going to stay like that. To hell with the doctors. Maybe that is why I have such a low opinion of them today.
She is not brain dead. Brain dead people do not breathe on their own, move on their own, laugh, cry, smile, pucker up for a kiss from Mom and Dad, etc. on their own! The only doctors that testified in this case were doctors that are fighting for legislation for the right to kill people. This is an awful shock to our conscience, or at least it should be.
Do you know where this started? Germany 1938. Why not kill the disabled and retarded because we would be doing them a favor. HA! I happen to be disabled, and if the gov't comes after me, I will shoot my out.
Hey! I have a way to save Social Security. Let's kill all the people when they reach their 65th birthday! That way, we don't need to spend any money on science to prolong these old geezers. (I am almost one, so I hope you realize sarcasm when you read it!) Think of all the money we could save?! Oh, but they vote...so what? The law is the law, right?
Well, let me ask this legislator this, "Do you agree that slavery was a state's right?" After all, it was in the constitution, you guys thought it was okay, we didn't. Where are you going to go in the Bible to pull your stupid little tricks out of context on this issue? Hmm.
Dear Jeff,
You could give her these whoppers:
"When I was hungry, you gave me to eat."
The passage in James, when he writes that it is not merely enough to say, "Be warm and well-fed." I think that's the "Faith withhout works is dead" section.
Peace,
It's very difficult to have a reasoned opinion on this without possessing the actual words of the amendment. Many implementations of the idea of a "living will" do contain implications that no Catholic can morally support.
How sad it would be if the papal legate quote is not authentic. I've always rather liked it.