Catholic Catholics
Former Boston mayor Raymond Flynn doesn't see a lot of Republicans at the 9 o'clock Sunday Mass at St. Vincent's Catholic Church.
This is a South Boston parish, the kind of place where Irish parishioners cherish photos of old-timers _ like Flynn's dockworker dad _ marching on feast days with Cardinal Richard Cushing and a young John F. Kennedy. These are hardcore, working-class, union-card Catholics.
"These people have never voted Republican in their lives," said Flynn, who also served as U.S. ambassador to the Vatican in the Clinton years. "But now they feel like homeless Democrats in their own party. They're pro-life and pro-family and pro-marriage and pro-justice and pro-poor and they have no idea who to vote for anymore. They're homeless."
Nevertheless, Flynn said, it's too easy to tie this scene to the "pew gap" that has made headlines in this election year. It's true that surveys say the safest way to predict how voters will vote is to chart their worship habits. Voters who worship more than once a week go Republican _ 2-1 or more. A Time poll said the "not religious" crowd backs Sen. John Kerry over President Bush, 69 percent to 22 percent.
Some strategists see this as "good Catholics" who back Bush versus "bad Catholics" who back Kerry. They want to divide America's 64 million Catholic voters into two political flocks.
"There's no way you can do that," said Flynn. "I know there are politically conservative Catholics out there and they're Republicans because that's what they believe. I also know there are liberal Catholics and they're still comfortable voting Democrat. But what about all of us who are just Catholic Catholics? [Source]
Known as 
I had discussions with other Catholics that feel the same way. Retired union members who go to confession weekly, participate in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrement, etc. Thye are very Catholic but cannot see themselves voting for GWB but do not like John F'ing Kerry (to use Rush's term) or the social aspects of the Democrat's platform.
My comment to them has been - 'get very invloved in the Democrat party, you've been letting the fringe elements control for too long'. Or 'vote Republican - maybe they Democrats will get te message if some strong union area goes against them'.
This being said my number 1 comment is always that our salvation is not in a political party or other works of men but in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Voting Republican won't kill them. If they've been voting Democrat because "that's the way my parents voted" or "that's the way it's always been around here" then they are too stupid to vote.
And I think it's highly arrogant of them to think that only Democrats can care about poor people and that Republicans eat poor people. This might surprise them but Republicans actually do care about the economic well-being of everybody, the difference between them and the Democrats is that Republicans actually understand something about economics.
They are bigots plain and simple if they can't bring themselves to vote for someone who's not "one of their own". There is still a latent holier than thou anti-protestant bigotry in North-East Catholics. Their blind support for the Party of Death is one of the reasons we've slaughtered 45 million little tiny helpless babies in their mothers' wombs.
They worship that adulterating, drunken womanizing, Vietnam war starting, Cold War escalating, nuclear arsenal expanding (using money stolen from the mouths of the poor) Kennedy as if he were some sort of saint, just because he was "Catholic".
Their bishops and priests have made a laughing stock of the Church because they couldn't stop abusing little boys (and they say they are for "justice"!). Their judges have forced gay "marriage" on the whole country.
It's a good thing they go to confession on a weekly basis because they have a lot to confess.
They can stay in the Democratic Party. We don't want them in the Republican party.
Okay...maybe that was a little harsh.
This oddly persistent affinity Catholics seem to have for the Democrats has always puzzled me. News flash: FDR has been out of office for 60 years, and there's a very different JFK in the arena right now. The Democrats haven't been the torch-bearers since the '60s, at best. That doesn't mean Catholics should mindlessly support Republicans instead, but at least we need to open our eyes to the current state of the Democrats rather than having our heads full of romanticized, long-outdated visions of them as supposed champions of the Catholic working class.
And Billy: Yes. ;)
Jeff, I am glad you posted that article because is describes me. I have never really trusted the Republican economic platform, because what I have seen happening under those economic policies is a situation where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and hard working folks end up working even harder for less reward. There doesn't seem to be any incentive for the wealthy to share their wealth (with some notable exceptions) other than by setting up foundations that seem to be aimed at perpetuating the mileu that enabled them to get rich. There is something terribly wrong in a system that pays an MBA money cruncher $400,000 or more per annum to work days in a corner office with most weekends off, stock benefits, a golden handshake, etc - while paying an MSN nurse (getting that Master's degree costs the same or more for nursing as business) less that $100,000 per annum, expecting an 80 plus hour workweek including nights and weekends, with direct responisbility for the life and health of other human beings. In my opinion, the GOP has valued money above most other human values. (i.e., they have succumbed to Mammon)However, the human values that the GOP has (even if some what wimpily) supported are life and family, while the Dems have succumbed to Moloch. I guess if I have to vote for one of the major candidates, I would prefer to support Mammon over Moloch, because financial poverty is more reversable than biological death. I will probably end up reluctantly voting for Bush, but that doesn't mean I will be happy about it.
Alicia, what are you talking about? MBA now worth less than an RN.
Alicia...you're right. We should let the government decide wages and prices that will be "fair".
It sure worked for the Soviets!
:)
Readme: http://tinyurl.com/4xmzc
If you are going to get onthe issue of pay then the UK's National Health Service pays it's nurses between £16,000 and £24,000 ($28-40,000 US).
The fact is that there will never be equality in pay under any system. How do you truely value and MBA over a nursing degree? You can't.
The argument here should not be one of income or wealth or jealousy of that wealth, that is a matter of individual morality, rather it should be about promoting politics consistent with RC values.
And I agree, if you vote for one party because historically you always have and everyone you know votes the same way and always has and not on the balance of issues and policy then you are wasting your vote and failing to exercise your moral obligations.
I know some Catholics from working class parts of Boston who vote Republican but would never say it too loudly. I'm sure there are many more.
This is exactly what happened to my mother in the last election. She voted Demorcratic since 48' (her 1st election) in 2000 she couldn't bear to vote for Bush and wouldn't vote for Gore so voted Nader.
Four years later she will cast her first vote for a Republican presidental candidate, because she is a catholic first!
Fr. Pavone needs to pay a visit to these parishes. Not all issues are of equal gravity. He has a gift of expressing this very well.
I tried getting involved with the Democrats here in Minnesota. It was made VERY clear to me that anything resembling a pro-life position would not be tolerated. I am still closer to the Democrats than Republicans on a number of issues, but I will be voting Republican unless the Democrats can turn this around. And I do NOT mean "proportionate reasons"!!!
I can donate $1 to charity and have 80-90% of it go towards that charity, or I can have my taxes go up $1 and hope that 15 cents reaches those in need. Some have more faith in government than others, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I don't see how having less faith in gov't as a means to a solution necessarily means you're beholden to Mammon.
The fault of the rich not giving more of their surplus is the fault of the rich. The system is only as good as its people, and that's why we need a religious revival, not an economic one. We're the richest country on earth with the lowest unemployment rate and yet ironically the most likely to be dissatisfied - Bush may not get rehired because of his inability to repeal the business cycle.
Um, Billy
Is response to your comment:
This might surprise them but Republicans actually do care about the economic well-being of everybody, the difference between them and the Democrats is that Republicans actually understand something about economics.
And I've got a brother who is a carpenter, is pro-life and because he supervises 3 trainees his posiiton is now 'management'. He is standing to loose ~25K/Year in income with the removal of overtime pay. His wife might have to go back to work in order to make up the income. Some will say 'tighten the belt' but the difference btwn 70K and 45K is not just a matter of budgeting. I really fail to see how this is the interest of everyone.
Of course I'm salaried and am in the middle of 70+ hour weeks in order to complete a project. At least I get a bonus...
Please guys don't vote for kerry. Kerry is in mortal sin according to the bishops and he actually might even be excomunicated. Any "Catholic" polition that is pro-choice is not a Catholic and should not be voted for. The problem is not just people like Kerry, it's also Catholics that vote for peole like him. So you're part of the (anti-catholic) problem. The mojority of practicing Catholics are Republican and the majority of discontinuers are Democrats and that is actually the way it is. American history even tells us the democratic party was an anti-catholic party from the start. So that raises the question: Why are so many Catholics democrats?! kerry will attack the Church, he could easily do it by forceing Catholic hospitals to do abortions. We don't want that at all! John Kerry is clearly not a good choice for a Catholic.
I went to the Dems for Life rally last month in Boston, and it gave me some hope. A woman gave me a button that read "43% of Democrats can't be wrong." 43% is too big for the democratic platform to read as it does. And young upstart pro-family people are coming out to run, at least in parts of the country. Those of us who would vote democrat if we had any viable options, we need to demand some! I'm starting by wearing my "Just another pro-life Democrat" shirt so that people realize we exist.
Regarding private vs. public charity, my concern isn't that the gov't is giving money back instead of keeping it--it's who gets it back. I may not have an economics background, but the family tax credit, for instance, used to provide something like a family-supporting wage when it was introduced. And since it wasn't linked to inflation, now it's a nice gesture only. To rectify this as part of the tax cuts would have been nice.
And I'm trying to take your "harsh" post lightly Billy, but living in the Northeast the last few years, watching good priests be tarred with the same brush as the bad just because they wear a collar, being silenced at a VOTF meeting because my attempt to question them didn't fit in with the "voice of consensus", joining good people rallying and calling and writing, to try to galvanize the legislature into standing up to the judges....and then to have someone like you come and dismiss us all...! It's hard to take lightly. God told Abraham that for 10 righteous men, he would hold off the brimstone. I don't claim to be righteous, but I'm trying and I'm sure at least 10 make the state worth saving for now. The Lady in the Pew, for one :)
--Amanda
Don, lighten up a little. 'The problem is not just people like Kerry, it's also Catholics that vote for peole like him.'
So what do you say to someone who is Catholic, follows the Church's teaching on many issues (contraception, etc.) but just took a ~25K pay cut because his position is now 'management'? Let's see the options are: have his wife go back to work but then there are 'Catholic' consertitives that will have a problem with that
(a woman should be home with her family) or pull his kids out of Catholic schools. I vore Republican in spite of their problems but I can't blanket issue a comdemnation of people that don't for whatever their reason.
'The mojority of practicing Catholics are Republican'. Here you get to what one means by 'practicing Catholic'. I know many practicing Catholics who do not vore GOP. You can't just make a blanket statement like this. Many times people are not considered practicing Catholics by conservatives for reasons that have nothing to do with doctrine ('hey, you like the music of haugen or haas so you are not a faithful Catholic').
I don't always vote rebublican, just I'm aganst Kerry because he's agast the Church in many of his views. I've got a couple sites here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1172388/posts
http://www.catholicsagainstkerry.com/default.aspx